Mixing heavy sets with light sets, bad?

[gushington]

Hi guys,

Apologies if there already exists a post about this, did a quick search and didn't come up with anything.

Ok, heres my problem and to be honest I've pretty much always trained like this. Take the bench for example. I'l start with a light set doing about 12 reps, then get heavier each time whilst going down by 2 reps (12-10-8-6). Once i've finished my max bench, pretty much straight away i'l whack on a light weight and try and bosh out about 20 reps. The logic behind it being im buiding but toning at the same time..

Firstly, is this bad for me in any way? or is it just stupid and a waste of energy? I guess its probably the latter, but I would be extremely interested to hear what people have to say.

Thanks very much guys

[cbbr]

Sounds like a drop set routine. I usually lift heavy and then immediatly drop about 30% and knock out as many reps as possible for my last 2 sets. Only danger I see is overtraining and it works for me. I do take a 2 week "break" using light weights about every 8 weeks.

[PowerHouse]

You are doing a pyramid type workout(10,8,6,4... reps), and there is nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't max out everytime you workout though because you can hurt yourself and you will overload your CNS. At the end of your workout instead of doing 20 light reps on bench just do 20 push ups instead. I wouldn't recommend doing all those reps on bench doing the pyramid sets is plenty.

Getting "cut" comes from your diet. Eat healthy foods and do some cardio.

[Old_Fart2]

There used to be a theory that your muscle "remembers" the last weight that you lifted. I don't know if there's any validity to that or not but for that reason I never go down in weight after doing my heavy sets. I just move on to another exercise.

[Maveaider]

One of the best ways to gain muscle is to add weight after every set, so what you're doing is good. However, 20 reps after four sets at a moderate rep level as well? Cut down on the reps. The best gains aren't made by pressing or lifting heavy weight; the best gains are made with good form.

With that in mind, I usually do an additional set of about 6 reps (nowhere near 20) after having benched my target weight. My form suffers with the heavy weight, but I can still bench more after I drop, say, 10 - 15lbs in plates. All in all I still do only four sets, so I'm not overtraining, but my form is very good on the set that I take to failure, and I achieve my target weight every time.

The next time I work out I add another 5 or 10lbs and keep that up until I can bench 500+lbs!

[bouncer]

Alot of people have trained like this. The big question is....Is it working for you?

Depending on your body type, recouperative ability, and your metabolism, this appraoch could be either right or wrong for you. I like to light 21's after heavy sets. I've had good results with these. However, for some it can lead to overtraining.

[zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Old_Fart2

There used to be a theory that your muscle "remembers" the last weight that you lifted. I don't know if there's any validity to that or not but for that reason I never go down in weight after doing my heavy sets. I just move on to another exercise.

The 'muscle memory' theory from Max-OT.

A common training mistake that I see people doing all the time and even promoted through other training programs is the "burnout" set.
This is usually the last set in an exercise that consists of a lighter weight done with high reps to failure. This my friends is very counter-productive to muscle growth from several standpoints and should never be performed.
To get a better understanding as to why you should never do this "burnout" set you must ask yourself why you are doing it in the first place. I've heard answers like,
"To feel the burn.", "To stimulate every last muscle fiber.", "To get the burn and the pump.", "To finish off the exercise." to name a few. As you can see all these explanations either make no sense, have no reasoning behind them, or go against the physiological pathways of muscle growth.

Muscle Memory
Here is an area that little formal research has been done, but enough has been completed to clearly indicate where "muscle memory" plays a prominent role in final overload adaptation, muscle growth, and muscle strength as a result of overload. There is even evidence that this muscle memory is exercise specific.

What this tells me, and is confirmed in the gym, is that your muscles have a "memory- like" effect that dictates the growth resulting from a workout. Strength appears to be even more prominently effected by this "muscle memory."

In other words, your muscles appear to have a memory effect that is significantly influenced by the last set that you do. If you finish each set with a heavy 4 to 6 rep exercise your muscles remember this and adapt accordingly. This memory effect is an important physiological phenomenon and should be used to your advantage in gaining strength and muscle size. And conversely, this memory effect should be manipulated so it will not impede the muscle growth process.

This muscle memory phenomenon is another reason, and probably the most important, to never do a high rep set as the last set in an exercise or a workout. That last thing you want is for this muscle memory to be linked to a light, high rep set.

Once you start implementing Max-OT you'll quickly notice the muscle memory effect. Using this knowledge to your advantage and following the structured Max-OT workout plans it will become very evident how potent this muscle-building muscle memory effect can be.
This memory effect is an integrated part of Max-OT and is used to tie one workout to the next. By taking advantage of the Max-OT techniques - from warming up to final set - you will be able harness and maximize the physiological processes that occur to magnify the adaptation in the form of muscle growth as a result.

On the other hand...from Ian King in T-nation....

"In one set you can develop power and hypertrophy all at once…"

Here’s a bona fide gem which Fred "Dr. Squat" Hatfield wrote about in the 80’s and has been resurrected by Ian for the new millenium. It works like this: Perform a few sets with a heavy weight using low reps, say around four. Now grab a lighter weight and knock out 15 to 20 reps. That’s your back-off set.

This is one of those cool neurological tricks Ian is famous for. Basically, when you come back to a light weight in the back-off set after lifting heavy, you can do more reps at a given weight than you would have if you’d done them as your first set. Plus, you can do them with a greater degree of acceleration in the concentric (lifting) phase. Pretty cool, eh?

Ian recommends that you use back-off sets after heavy sets of six reps or less. He also notes that the greater the contrast between the high load set and the back-off set, the better the effect. For example, going from a negative-only set to a back-off set works extremely well. Ian warns not to use this technique on every set in the workout, though, as it’s very draining and eats into your energy reserves more than a normal set.

[Old_Fart2]

I thought it was muscle memory I was thinking off but when I did a search, I came up with the concept of your muscles bouncing back after a layoff period, also known as muscle memory. Or maybe it's the same thing?

In any event, as I said, I've always finished my main exercises with a heavy set; never gone back down in weight for a "burn-out" set. However, occasionally on the auxilary exercises I'll do drop sets but only after the main exercise.