Beginner trouble and dilemma

[OzzyC]

Hello to all,

I have been reading these forums for a little while and have finally decided to post. I would like to thank everyone on this site for the sheer volume of useful info available and the helpful attitude that exists here.

I have a question concerning my training, it is not something I have found an answer to using the search feature.

I am a beginner as I have started training about 5 months ago. I train in my company's gym but it does not have alot of machines. I have made quite a few mistakes like everyone but am trying to rectify this by becoming informed.

First my stats :

Age : 26
Height : 6'1
Weight : 165 lbs
Body Type : Ectomorph
BF% : no idea, 12% ?
Hardgainer

I ingest approximately 4000 calories per day ( trying to lean/clean bulk ) and have recently started using ON 100% Whey.

Training schedule :

Monday : Chest, Triceps, Abs, Shoulders
Tuesday : Back, Legs, Biceps, Forearms
Wednesday : OFF
Thursday : Chest, Triceps, Abs, Shoulders
Friday : Back, Legs, Biceps, Forearms
Saturday : OFF
Sunday : 45 mins Interval Running

My dilemma is the following :

I cannot lift alot as virtually all of my upper body is underdeveloped : narrow shoulders, tris non existent, no lats, weak back.

This makes exercises like the press, squats, chin ups and others very hard for me. For example, when I Press, my arms (tris) tire before my pecs! When I squat, my upper body is crying for help and I hardly work out my quads. Also, after the Bench Press, working the sternal and clavicular pectorals, my shoulders are already half dead and I can hardly work my delts.

I know as a beginner I should stick to compound exercises but these are difficult, when I do isolation exercises my lifting capabilities are better. This is why I have lots of isolation exercises in my routine, I believe if I can somehow develop the smaller muscle groups I think they will help me do compound ones. But this keeps me in the gym for 1 hour and 45 minutes each time and totally drains my glycogen stores.

These difficulties make me feel I have already hit a plateau at such an early stage.

Should I stick to a few compound exercises using the small weight I can or continue my routine and let my underdeveloped muscles catch up so I'm stronger all round? Does this make any sense to you?

I would greatly appreciate any input,

All the best from Ireland!

[Mr. Stone]

You're thinking is flawed, to be frank.

It should be the other way around. It's because you are doing all these isolation exercises that you are where you are now.

Whether they are easy or not, you need to start working toward the basics. Look at making your routines more fundamental in nature. Those compound exercises are what are going to build the foundation for future gains.

If they are difficult due to pain, that is one thing. If they are difficult due to workload, you need to get over it.

Stop worrying about the weight, and worry about your form and function.

[Insex]

Welcome to EF OzzyC. Enjoy your stay and all of the great resources we have here to offer.

If your body is underdeveloped, and you want to develop it, there are ways to do that through proper training. If you perform compound exercises using heavy weight and exerting high intensity, you'll develop a powerful physique. The only catch: it takes time. If you don't train with high intensity, you will only achieve mediocre results.

I think your regimen looks good. But what kind of exercises are you doing for each bodypart? For chest, are you doing Bench Press with the barbell, or some pec deck machine? For shoulders, are you doing Lateral Raises, or machine shoulder raises. And so on. If you're trying to gain as much muscle as possible, and you're trying to gain as much strength as possible, you should perform exercises involving free weights over machines.

Also, keep in mind, you've only been working out for 5 months. Good things take time. Don't get discouraged if you don't see significant results overnight. Developing a powerful physique takes years. If it were easy, every guy would look like Mike O'Hearn.

Keep your chin up. You'll do fine.

[weaksauce]

Originally Posted by OzzyC

Hello to all,

I am a beginner as I have started training about 5 months ago.

My dilemma is the following :

I cannot lift alot as virtually all of my upper body is underdeveloped : narrow shoulders, tris non existent, no lats, weak back.

This makes exercises like the press, squats, chin ups and others very hard for me. For example, when I Press, my arms (tris) tire before my pecs! When I squat, my upper body is crying for help and I hardly work out my quads. Also, after the Bench Press, working the sternal and clavicular pectorals, my shoulders are already half dead and I can hardly work my delts.

Hi....our physique is nearly identical "6'1" 160 and we both do a two day body split. but i have a few things switched around here and there :p. I take whey too.

I just have a couple questions out of my own sheer curiosity...

Obviously body building takes many months at LEAST, but if you've been consistently training for 5 months what gains have you made so far?
I find it hard to believe you're upperbody is that underdeveloped 5 months into training..

Can you give me some insight on the type of exercises you do?
What are you trying to accomplish exactly too? It wasn't quite clear to me..

Ive only been lifting consistently almost 1 1/2 months now and i haven't experienced much development on my chest as I would have liked.
However, ive been told by various friends my arms are significantly bigger.

What type of gains you've been making?

I don't really have much trouble lifting the next day on a 2 day body split, but since you are you should really consider a differet split or program.

[OzzyC]

Hi guys, and thanks for your responses

Here are the exercises I do for each bodypart :

Chest : lying dumbbell flies and inclined press ( smith machine ).

Legs : squats (smith machine ), leg extensions, leg curls, standing one leg calf raises (dumbbell).

Shoulders : dumbbell raises for all 3 delts, dumbbell shrugs.

Back : back extensions, seated rows, lat pulldowns.

Abs : cable side bends, cable pulldowns.

Triceps : bench dips and cable pulldowns.

Biceps : dumbbell curls.

I was also doing wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, hammer curls and inclined shoulder raises for the serratus but I will just scrap these last ones for now and concentrate on the basics.

I do 3 sets of 8 reps.

I understand the need to lift heavy during compound exercises, but this is exactly my problem. I can't since my core is weak. Weaksauce : I don't have trouble lifting on the day after a workout, just trouble lifting heavy for compound like I was explaining. I will persist, working on the basics as I understand this is what you, and Mr Stone are telling me.

Thanks for your encouragement Insex, I do not mind if it takes time, I am commited and determined. I just need to know I'm on the right track to success.

In the first few months I did not make any gains appart from stronger ligaments probably. I was not doing enough sets, I was doing too much cardio and I was not eating nearly enough to gain mass. I ended losing 4kgs in 3 months! I did have the feeling of being slightly stronger though.

So my goal is to gain mass all over. In the last few weeks I have been eating 4k calories a day and taking the protein supplement and training quite hard and I have regained 2 kgs, muscle or fat I do not know. I feel stronger but I can't see any difference on my body, although my lats may appear slightly wider as I have been concentrating more work on them.

Also I don't have trouble lifting on the day after a workout working the other body parts, like I explained above, I have trouble just lifting heavy on compound exercises. So as Insex has said I think my regime is ok.

[orientalkid]

understand the need to lift heavy during compound exercises, but this is exactly my problem. I can't since my core is weak

Wheu u are juz starting out (for the first three mths at least), weight shouldnt be the priorty, keep the weights light, u should be able to do 12 to 15 reps for each excerise in order to 'feel' the muscle part being used , dun worry about the poundage first, getting ur technique right is more important!

U can even start with just the bar, everyone has got to start somewhere, u can slowly work ur way up. The sign that ur triceps hurt b4 ur peck during bench press is a sign that ur weight is too heavy for eg.

Btw, do not use smith machine for squats, they kill ur knee! Use barbell instead (again it doesnt matter if u juse use the bar, u can improve frm there)

[exnatural123]

I would completly forget any isolation movements, for now. smith machines arn't somthing I recomend, Your routine is ok, but I would suggest not doing a split until your more seasoned lifter.
try this:

day 1: squats, then DB lunges until your legs fill like jello then ab crunches
2: db incline bench, then db flat bench, at the end Ab crunches as many as possible.
3: Dead lift, Db rows, lat pulls, again ab crunches
4: off
5: off, or if you feel recovered start the cycle over again..

[Bocgam]

Originally Posted by OzzyC

Back : back extensions, seated rows, lat pulldowns.

Biceps : dumbbell curls.

I'm in a similar situation, and can't speak intelligently about much of this, but I'll share one piece of advice which has helped me quite a bit: Do pull-ups. Since ditching lat pulls I've noticed greater gains and improvement in both the biceps and back.

[OzzyC]

Thanks for all the advice guys,

Unfortunately there is no barbell for squats and deadlifts in my company gym. There even isn't a bar for chin ups! I am serious about bodybuilding and would love access to these pieces of equipment but here in Ireland joining a gym costs about 6-700 euros/year that's almost 900-1000$ USD. I can't afford this. Once I move to Canada in a year I will be able to join a good gym as they are much cheaper.

So.. are squats with the smith machine better than no squats? I hear they bust your knees, or should I just stick to DB lunges?

@exnatural123 : why so many ab exercises? I know they should be worked alot but 3 days in a row? If squats are not too bad on the smith machine with not too much weight I will do them and I will try out your regime in a few weeks when I have finished testing the current one.

One thing I just noticed yesterday in the gym after missing 2 workouts is that when I give my body 3-4 days complete rest from the gym I can lift heavier when I come back. Perhaps my body is not ready as you say for a split routine and working out 4 days a week.

I am beginning to love the learning process involved in bodybuilding and knowing your body. Making mistakes and rectifying things becomes an important,necessary and fun part of it all.

@Bocgam : thanks for the advice on the pull-ups. If I can find a good bar I will defo do them.

[exnatural123]

Abs seem to recover fast... plus U R not doing any heavy lifting with crunches, so its more endurance training. I notice I didn't say set or reps, try 4 sets with 12-15 reps on the compound movements.

[orientalkid]

Unfortunately there is no barbell for squats and deadlifts in my company gym. There even isn't a bar for chin ups

Unfortunately, u will have to 'improvise', and ur choice of excerise will be limited. However, we can always work it around. U can use DB for lunges and for deadlifts (they provide for more range of motion). U can also also use 2 DB for bentover rows. And if u have a bench, u could use it for DB bench press. Also, u could try dips, they are excellent for upper strength, especially for beginners, al u need is 2 chairs...

There even isn't a bar for chin ups

I would woory abt that though. Most beginners cant do a decent amount of reps for a set on chin-up so i would advise u to stick to deadlift and rows for now till ur back is conditioned enuff and u get asses to a gym

[OzzyC]

Thanks Oriental kid, you give me hope!

Actually there is a bar for pull-ups if you count the smith's bar, but I am not 100% sure of the safety of using it. Other people in my company gym use it so I will ask them. But like you say it may be better to keep them for when I can at least do 8? Or just force myself week after week to do more reps.

When you say Dips with 2 benches/chairs do you mean set them shoulder width and kneel before them and let your weight come down on your chest and push back up? Could you please explain?

Also about DB lunges, is it true they don't don't build much mass like squats can?

I already use a bench for DB Press, well I do flies... I don't know which is better, I think flies work the inner chest a little more?

Exnatural123, I use weight on my ab exercises I do this kneeling cable crunches and cable side bends.

3 sets of each, 15-20 reps.

Thanks again for your help, I will modify my regime in consequence.

[orientalkid]

ah sry for the late post was in china w/o internet connection.

When you say Dips with 2 benches/chairs do you mean set them shoulder width and kneel before them and let your weight come down on your chest and push back up? Could you please explain?

U rest both ur hand on one chair and ur feet on the other and then u go down and up with ur chest facing foward. It's like sitting on a chair with ur feet on the other but ur butt is off the chair with only ur hand for support.The primary muscle used are ur triceps and sholders ( it also work the chest).

Also about DB lunges, is it true they don't don't build much mass like squats can

yep, but for a beginner dun worry about it, u will still grow muscle easily, provided u do them correctly.

I already use a bench for DB Press, well I do flies...

Do files only at the end of ur chest workout to stretch the muscle, abt 15reps will do, they dun need to be heavy but make sure u complete the full range of motion.


Btw, i would advise against using weights for abs, they make ur abs blocky IMO. If u can juz cut abs out of ur program, they are a waste of time for ppl juz starting out. doing ab wun give u ur six pack, good diet will and cardio will, then again if u are a hard-gainer achiving a six pack wun be much of a prob......

[OzzyC]

Cheers Orientalkid,

I never had a 6 pack, even when I was a tennager and spending calories like crazy. I could see good definition though when I contracted them. So I guess I need to develop them a little.

U rest both ur hand on one chair and ur feet on the other and then u go down and up with ur chest facing foward. It's like sitting on a chair with ur feet on the other but ur butt is off the chair with only ur hand for support.The primary muscle used are ur triceps and sholders ( it also work the chest).

Is that like a weighted bench dip described on the exrx site? If so I can easily do these at my gym.

I will lay off the smith machine for squats, a few days after leg workout I got sharp pains in the outside of the knees. There are lots of variations of exercises for the quads with dumbbells, none are as good as the squat but until I can join a good gym I will do what I can.

Flies (lying) give me shoulder pains, in the inside of the shoulder but towards the widest part of the shoulder (rotator cuff?), is that because my arms go down too low compared to my shoulders or just because my shoulder bone structure is very narrow and I get bones grating between each other.

I have 2 questions now :

-has it ever happened to any other beginners that one part of your body actually looks smaller than when you started? My arms seem to be smaller and I could swear I had lost muscle mass on them even though my overall weight is increasing slowly. I first thought I was over training and losing mass but I am pretty sure this cannot be. Is this because my chest and shoulders have gained some size without me noticing compared to my arms and they seem smaller than before?

-I have read many times that it is good to stimulate muscle growth by mixing it up with different exercises, should I use different exercises for a muscle group on the same training day? Use the same exercise for 4-6 weeks then swap? Which is best? And should I concentrate on this as a beginner?

Thanks

[exnatural123]

I always use squats, deads, bench, rows..at the end of my workout I change around the isolation movements almost every session. And you need to chart your progress so you know your gaining. Measure you arms a week later measure again... This is afor sure way of knowing.

[OzzyC]

Cheers!