odd chest strength question...

[bigpurp]

One thing I have long fought is a fairly weak benchpress. I'm not entirely sure what i'm doing wrong, if it's just genetics, or if my other stabalizer muscles and such are just stronger than normal.

For example. My flat bench max is right around 225. Pretty pathetic for my stature (6'3", 215lbs, about 13-15%bf as of today)

My chest isn't abnormally small in comparison to the rest of my body, it just seems to be weak and doesn't build major strength no matter what I do.

Now here is what confuses me. I can hit an incline dumbbell press with 110lb dumb bells as easily as I can a 225 incline or flat bench. Oh and yes I can max on incline with in a couple pounds of what I can flat. Is it just that my tris and stabilizer muscles are strong enough that having the independant movement doesn't effect my overall strength, or what?


My background has been racing downhill mountainbikes and pro motocross, so upperbody strength has never been a huge focus as much as control and endurance. I think this may have something to do with it, but not entirely positive.


It's not a huge issue, but I would like to develop more strength and a bit of size in my chest. To me it just seems odd that a guy my size can walk up and curl someones 135lb bench set, but I can barely flat bench more than my body weight.


I don't expect any profound responses but a bit of direction would be greatly appreciated. Do I just need to hammer it out on flat bench? Get someone to help perfect my form?

[falconfootball]

How strong are your lats and shoulders? Working your back plays a role in pressing power. Also have you had any injuries to your upper body?

[bouncer]

I would guess without seeing you train that your technique is all delts and triceps.

Try doing some pre-exhaust for your chest. Do flat bench flyes or pec deck before every set of benching. Also do not lock out. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that you only do3/4 reps leaving off the top1/4.

You really need to mentally lock in to your pecs while benching. This is a bit extreme but i've used it with people like yourself with good sucess. Spend a chest workout doing nothing but flat bench flyes, supersetted with 1/2 rep (bottom 1/2) flat benches. Make sure you leave your pecs whimpering after the workout. If you arent so sore you want to cuss me out 2 days after, you did it wrong. Then after a total of three days after that workout, you should still be sore. Then it's time to bench. Concentrate on really firing up the soreness in the pecs as you bench. Use a moderate weight for you because what you are trying to do is get that mental link with the muscle you are training.

[katz7479]

flat bench as in barbell bench or dumbell bench?

also my decline bench max is close to my barbell max while my incline max is about 40 pounds lighter.

from my experience using dumbells in any bench lift uses your arms muscles much more then barbell. so this may be a reason why your dumbell bench is very high compared to your barbell bench.

just my two cents.

[Insex]

It seems like you have very strong shoulders, but a weaker chest to compliment them.

Post us your current workout routine that you use for your chest workouts. Maybe just your workout routine needs some tweaking.

Also, your form may need some tweaking as well. How far apart are your hands when you grip onto the bar. You're 6'3" which means you have long limbs, so you should have a pretty wide grip. If your grip is too narrow, you'll mostly be using your anterior deltoids and triceps, with less pectorals. A wider grip will make you stretch your pectorals more. Also, where does the bar touch when you bring it down? Across the nipples? On your collarbone? Above your abs?

[bigpurp]

My chest workout for the past 6 weeks or so.

3 sets flat bench, 145x10, 185x10, 205x8
3 sets flat dumbbell. 65's-10, 75's-10, 90's-8
2 sets of 10 explosive pushups done very quickly. But slow negatives.
Incline bench. 165x10, 185x10, and usually get 6 clean at 205.
Incline dumbell 50's-10, 65s-10, but usually only get 8 clean, 80's-6
flat dumbell flys. 35's-10, 40's-10, 45's-8

Usually try to get 2-3 sets of pushups with my toes on a large stability ball while doing a few sets of cable flys to finish things up.

Oh and I make sure my tris haven't been pounded on in at least a couple days. My normal routine has been chest on tuesday and shoulders on friday, taking sat/sun off and doing back/bis and legs on wed&thurs so hopefully everything is reasonably well recovered by that point.

As for form.

I grip the bar with my ring fingers on the little index rings. Is this too narrow for my arm length?

The bar comes down to about my nipple line +/- 1/2", but I try to make sure it never touches my chest. No bounce or anything like that. I've always tried to keep good form and everything clean. Though I do go to full lockout on each rep.

upper body injuries... Nothing major, couple broken collar bones, but the last one was almost 5 years ago iirc.

I will agree that my arms are much stronger than my chest, and this very well could play a part in my dumbell press being strong. Fact is I feel much stronger and more comfortable with dumbells than I do a bar.


Thanks for the insight everyone.


My thoughts were to try and drop the reps, up the weight with a spotter, and attempt to force myself to acclimate to feeling a heavier weight. Hoping this would help my power and overall strength, then work on bringing the reps up over time. Say bump everything up by 10lbs per week, drop reps to 8x8x6 or even 8x6x4, or until I reach absolute failure on my 4 rep set?

[Insex]

For a guy of your height, I think gripping the bar with your ring fingers around the index rings is not wide enough. Although, I would have to see the actual bar to be able to tell. Because different barbell manufacturers mark the index rings in different places. But in your case, try wrapping your index fingers around the index rings. If it feels too wide, then do it with your middle fingers. I'm 6'1" and I usually grip the bar with my index fingers around the index rings; and I'm two inches shorter than you. Using a wider grip will definitely make you expand your chest more.

For all the exercises you listed, do you do all of them in one workout? If you do, I think that's a lot of exercises for just one body part. Instead of doing 3 sets for each of the 6 exercises, try reducing the amount of chest exercises to 3. Pick Barbell Bench Press as one of them (because you're trying to strengthen your chest) then pick only two others. For the two others, just do 3 to 4 sets of each. But for the Bench Press, really try to take that lift seriously and perform 4 to 5 work sets:

- Start with a Warm-Up (20 repetitions of a light weight or Push-Ups).

- Next set, pick a medium weight. Nothing too light, but nothing too heavy either. Perform no more than 10 reps.

- Now it's time to get the real work done. Make sure you have a spotter, because now you're going to be challenging yourself with heavy weight. Pick a weight where you can only perform 8 good repetitions, do that for 2 sets. Then pick a weight where you can only perform 6 good repetitions, do that for 2 more sets. If you want to, add a little more weight to where you can only do 5 good repetitions. After you're done with Bench, do those two other exercises to finish off your chest workout.

For help on figuring out how much weight you should use for each set, go here:

http://www.criticalbench.com/weight-training-chart.htm

This is how you use the chart. First, you have to know your 1RM (One-Repetition Max) which is the most amount of weight you can lift for one repetition. In your case, that would be 225. Then, while knowing what your current 1RM is, you create a workout program around it. Let's use the one I mentioned above as an example:

- Warm-Up set.
- 1x10 (65% 1RM)
- 1x8 (75% 1RM)
- 1x8 (75% 1RM)
- 1x6 (80% 1RM)
- 1x6 (85% 1RM)
- 1x5 (85% 1RM)

Over the next few weeks, you'll get stronger, so you'll be able to perform each set better. For example, this could be you after a month:

- Warm-Up set.
- 1x10 (65% 1RM)
- 1x8 (75% 1RM)
- 1x8 (80% 1RM)
- 1x6 (85% 1RM)
- 1x6 (85% 1RM)
- 1x5 (85% 1RM)

After you get even stronger, you can make your workout program even more challenging. For example:

- Warm-Up set.
- 1x10 (65% 1RM)
- 1x6 (80% 1RM)
- 1x5 (85% 1RM)
- 1x5 (85% 1RM)
- 1x4 (90% 1RM)
- 1x4 (90% 1RM)
- 1x3 (90% 1RM)

Get the idea? These are only examples, so you don't have to use these actual numbers. Take a look at that chart in the link I posted above, and figure out your own numbers from there. You could use the first workout program example as a stepping stone, then make it more challenging after you get stronger.

One last thing, you're training for strength here. So it's OK to allow yourself some rest in between each set. I'd say 2 to 3 minutes of rest in between each set should be OK, but no more than 4 minutes. Remember, you want quality of sets not quantity of sets. So each set should be performed at maximum effort after you've allowed yourself to rest enough in order to give a good, solid effort for each set. You should not be fatigued at the beginning of each set. You should be rested up and ready to go (but not too well rested to the point where your muscles are cold again).

Hope this helps.

[bigpurp]

I measured the index rings on the bar, they look to be 36" apart cl to cl. Which puts the outsides of my hands a bit over 38" wide.

I'll try it with my pointer fingers lined up on the index rings and see how it feels.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll write up a plan and test it out tomorrow, I would have today but monday seems to be the day every douchebag one day gym jocky decides to come in and do chest, so I hit the squat rack and stay out of the ruckus.

Thanks again everyone.

[bigpurp]

Well had a go at it last night... the wider grip was interesting to say the least. I felt very uncomfortable with it at first but like any position change it's to be expected.

I felt like my form was better, elbows angled down to my sides a bit as opposed to being nearly straight out, but hard to really tell if it was isolating my chest any more.

I'm going to give it a few more weeks and see if anything starts improving. Will update this thread with what I discover.

[Zerophase]

Looking at your routine,it seems that you are doing too light of weight.I don't think my bench is that great either,but the one thing I learned along the way is that if you don't try to do more than you usually do,then you will be stuck doing the same weight.

I'm 6'1",and 185 lbs.,and people at the gym think that I'm crazy or something because I max out at 275-280 lbs.What they don't seem to understand is that I've been working at trying to get to that weight for years.A good part of it is breaking the mental barrier of thinking that you can't do heavy weight and just going for it.You'll be surprised what you can do with a good spot and a little bit of confidence.

By the way, it seems that you may be doing a little too much for chest in one day.Maybe you could benefit from doing a little less or splitting it up and doing it twice a week.I've noticed that the "big boys" who lift some serious shit bench twice a week. Just my two cents, but good luck to you what ever you do.

[Italianangel]

I always found that training a superset 6 day split got me strong in all including bench but I always began with dips, weighted, or weighted high pushups which really seem to get the bench weight up.
I also found the max ot program got my bench weight up.
Linda

[championofnight]

for what it is worth dude, im 6'8", 225lbs, and my max is only like 235. I like to work out with 220lbs. I was told it had something to do with my long arms. Your 6"3', so your arms are fairly long too. I have a feeling you have thought of this/ already overcome this prob, but this is my personal experiance.

[wildstang]

for me my shoulders were my weak link do to being double jointed as i will call it. my arms are fairly long also being 6'4". in the beginning my shoulders would burn like crazy and feel loose at the sockets if that makes sense at all. i was forced to do very low reps with higher weight untill i was able to strengthen my shoulders enough to handle the higher weights. so i was forced to use a pyramid cycle do to my shoulder conditions. without strengthening the shoulders i was still able to get the higher weight lifted but at the exspense of having lots of shoulder pain and them feeling like they were about to be ripped from the sockets. to this day i still never had my shoulders checked out. i probably should but i have worked around them strengthening them to be able to handle the increased loads i put them under.

[championofnight]

interesting. I have never had probs with my shoulders. In fact i would say my shoulders are one of my strongest point, and the reason why i could gain 15lbs and still look proportional. lol.
my tri's, though, would most likely be the most developed area on my body.
Search for starcraft 2 trailers. I look like the marine that goes into the suit, but im not on steriods like he prob is. Lol

[wildstang]

Originally Posted by championofnight

interesting. I have never had probs with my shoulders. In fact i would say my shoulders are one of my strongest point, and the reason why i could gain 15lbs and still look proportional. lol.
my tri's, though, would most likely be the most developed area on my body.
Search for starcraft 2 trailers. I look like the marine that goes into the suit, but im not on steriods like he prob is. Lol

yea previously in a different thread i had mentioned that as a kid i was always able to pop my shoulders out of socket. back in my high school days i even voluntered when they had a demonstration in the gym by some escape artist who put the straight jacket on and got out. well i did to.....lol
i think that condition has always plagued my shoulders development. i was able to strengthen them to what i needed them to be, but to this day i still have to stop mid workout if i get that funny feeling its gonna pop out, and rub it and move them around then all seems all right after that. its weird!
ive been told my rotator muscles are looser then most peoples so that allows me to pop them out without tearing them.

[painless2]

The guy in that trailer is a lot bigger than 225, let alone at 6'8"

[Hans_Rachid]

Originally Posted by championofnight

I look like the marine that goes into the suit, but im not on steriods like he prob is. Lol

Cut the crap, champ... Or post pictures and let us be the judge, because considering your weight and height you probably look pretty average, while the marine from the trailer looks like he weighs 300 pounds and is shorter than you.

Anyway this has nothing to do with this thread...