Free Weights Vs. Machines

**john112364** · May 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM

I have a newbie question about building muscle.

I've just started at a new gym and they have an awesome assortment of dumbells and barbells, etc. as well as weight machines. I want to lift weights to tone up. I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything like that (I don't have the drive or the dedication for that), I just want to go from doughy to some muscle. I've been doing cardio for a while now, but that doesn't build your muscle.

My question is: what, in your opinions, is the better way to do this, free weights or machines? What are the pros and cons of both ways? Should I get the help of a trainer or not?

Any advice or opinions is welcome.

Now go at it Efers.

**mooshue** · May 8th, 2008, 11:48 AM

dont worry, you wont be a bodybuilder, dont be scared to lift heavy weights. You could spend 5-10 years lifting heavy weights, and youd never reach 1/4 of the potential of todays bodybuilders naturally so get that thought of "i dont want to be huge" out of your head, cause you wont be.

I like free weights the best as you get a more full range of motion for the exercise, works stablizers and strengthens ligaments and tendons as opposed to machines which are on a sled and only allow a very strict range of motion. Now thats not all bad as it really isolates the targeted muscle groups, so i do use machines from time to time to go really heavy and isolate say a bicep, tricep, quad, delt, etc...

As far as being tone, that look comes with a reduction in body fat. Dont be fooled into thinking you need to do 50 reps with 10lb dumbbells because it burns more calories and tones you out, it doenst. What it does is keep you week, keeps you from building more muscle to give you the look you want.

**SAINT_X** · May 8th, 2008, 01:00 PM

[quote=mooshue;685636]dont worry, you wont be a bodybuilder, dont be scared to lift heavy weights. You could spend 5-10 years lifting heavy weights, and youd never reach 1/4 of the potential of todays bodybuilders naturally so get that thought of "i dont want to be huge" out of your head, cause you wont be."

I wish I had dollar for every person who I have had to tell this to...especially women.

**falconfootball** · May 8th, 2008, 02:17 PM

Mooshue covered most of it. Free weights are hands down a better choice.

If you can afford a trainer, go for it. A decent one will teach you how to exercise correctly with optimum results in mind. After you have researched, watched, and learned quite a bit, become a trainer yourself!

Hard work ALWAYS pays off!

**justaguy87337** · May 8th, 2008, 02:19 PM

I prefer the free weights, it feels good to load a bar up heavy and then push it. I don't get the same feeling when doing machines, also the strict range of motion that you have to use causes my joints to hurt.

Weiser_Cain · May 8th, 2008, 02:24 PM

Free weights are much much cheaper, sounds like you may want to keep some cardio in there too, get a trainer if you're having trouble making progress, it may be your diet if you're still a dough boy after a bit. Don't worry 'bodybuilder' doesn't just sneak up on you.

**painless2** · May 8th, 2008, 02:45 PM

Use both, they have their own merits. Much like with diet, never get too strict.

**JoeBAR** · May 8th, 2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painless2

Use both, they have their own merits. Much like with diet, never get too strict.

After watching 90% of people in my gym squat in the smith machine (to my delight, NO ONE in MY squat rack) I noticed this week they now also deadlift in the smith, or rather rack pull, since it doesn't go all the way to the floor. Gotta love "machines"

**torofuerte** · May 8th, 2008, 04:33 PM

I love it when people say "I don't want to be a bodybuilder" as if becoming one were something inevitable that requires no effort, like developing hemorroids or something.

I guess everybody covered it up, so I'll just parrot my way.

1. Free weights. There is a time and place for machines, but more often than not they have no place for people starting up. The only time for machines is as supplements (not replacements) to training with free weights, or in case of rehab for injuries.

2. There is no such thing as 'toning'. You develop muscle or you don't. You loose body fat and become lean, or you do not. Your ability to loose body fat is directly related to the amount of muscle you develop.

3. To go from "doughy to some muscle" you need dedication, almost the same dedication as in bodybuilding. What make people into bodybuilders are their nutritional choices and selection of training methods.

4. Drop the cardio. Forget about cardio. You don't have sufficient muscles to benefit from cardio as a fat loss mechanism (you realize this already so that's good.)

5. Get Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strenght 2nd Edition". Also check Oxygen Magazine and pay attention to the workouts and recipes. I prefer this magazine over male-oriented fitness/bodybuilding magazines. The stuff in it IMO is much superior quality and applicability.

6. Do high intensity interval training, first once a week and later twice a week, preferably on days when you are not lifting... in addition to weight training. Search for HIIT, "hight intensity interval training", "interval training" and "tabata". 5-10 minutes of it >>>> 30-40 minutes of "cardio".

Observe the following clips to completion - don't skip any video. Watch them all!!!

Introduction to HIIT

YouTube - High Intensity Interval Training

HIIT on a stationary bike

YouTube - Anthony - Bike HIIT

10 minute HIIT/tabata workout

YouTube - 10 Minute HIIT Workout

Tabata Squats (20 seconds, as many reps as possible, 10 secs rest, for 4 minutes)

YouTube - Tabata Squats

Good luck.

**painless2** · May 8th, 2008, 11:14 PM

#2 is not necessarily true for the average person toro, as well as endurance athletes. You don't need to build muscle mass per se to lose bodyfat, as bodyfat utilization is directly related to cardiovascular exercise. Having more muscle means you burn more calories during exericse and at rest, but in a lot of sports, having higher muscle mass is detrimental, especially in endurance athletics.
HIIT works great, but isn't a panacea either. It burns less of a percentage of fat overall, though burning more fat in aggregate total as compared to lower intensity CV exercise. It is somewhat like plyometrics in that it is difficult for most people to do, and shouldn't be done too often. It's a great boost to the system if you are in good condition, if not, it can be short workout due to exhaustion.
Use it, but build up to it using different splits, such as 15 seconds/3 minutes recovery etc...

**john112364** · May 9th, 2008, 06:29 AM

I want to thank everyone for their responses. That's what I love about this site. You ask for help and you get plenty of it.

Now for a clarification: I didn't mean to imply that me not wanting to be a bodybuilder meant that I would look like one by accident. I was just using that as a gauge of how intense I was willing to work out. I know that bodybuilders work much harder than I am willing to do. I don't think for a second that I have that kind of dedication. What I do want to do is lose weight and shape up, but if I never have "six pack abs" I will still be happy because I can feel the results after every workout. If I don't then I'm not working hard enough.

Thanks again everyone and keep 'em coming.

**TommuGuns** · May 9th, 2008, 07:18 AM

remember one thing pal.... all body builders are on roids, so to get like a body builder u have to be on roids for years... no matter how hard and how frequent you train natural, u will never look like a body builder... even if u train 5 days a week for 15 years, u still wont look like a body builder training natural.

If u dont want to look like a body builder just dont take steroids and u wont. Training natural u will just be defined with a little bit of muscle mass, (u will look athletic).

In saying that, to look athletic u have to train very hard still... stay away from roids and u will be fine.

**orientalkid** · May 9th, 2008, 08:03 AM

Free weights would be good for the compound excerises (Bench press, squats, deadlifts, bentover row etc) machine is good for isolation excerises like biceps, triceps etc (which shouldnt be in the workout regime of anyone new to the iron game)

**orientalkid** · May 9th, 2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

they now also deadlift in the smith, or rather rack pull

I saw a guy did that in my gym before, so i figure i would give it a try (also doing back that day) and damn, i could never do it right, the feel is so akward.

**Insex** · May 15th, 2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john112364

My question is: what, in your opinions, is the better way to do this, free weights or machines? What are the pros and cons of both ways? Should I get the help of a trainer or not?

In my opinion, both can be beneficial for achieving your goals; but they are not the only options you have.

In a nutshell, you can't go wrong with spending the majority of your strength and energy with the free weights. Then towards the end of your workout, when you want to pump out that last bit of lactic acid, have some fun with the cables and machines.

**bouncer** · May 15th, 2008, 04:59 AM

Simply, if you HAVE to choose, go with free weights. Stabilizer muscles come into play. And with the basic movements like squats, deadlifts, cleans, and even bench presses, the whole body becomes involved working as a unit to move the weight. I believe that more growth hormone is released when your whole body is involved. Therefor...better gains.

However, after someone has been training a while good machines can be rotated into the routines to keep things from getting stale. Most fans of free weights won't flinch to do leg extensions and leg curls after a good squat workout. For people with strong calves, it's hard to balance 800 -1000 lbs on an olympic bar to do calf raises on a toe-block. Heres where a calf raise machine works well. There have also been times that I've been confronted with the fact that I'm not invulnerable, and I have used machines to continue training around those injuries.

Machines have their place. I would suggest though that as a beginner that all or at least 90% of your training come from free weights.

**gunshowbabe** · May 15th, 2008, 09:30 AM

I always try to use free weights... It works your muscles better in terms of having to balance and controling the weights in each motion... I use the machines if I don't have a spotter though... much rather do that then be found pinned under a barbell. lol!

As far as a trainer, if you want to spend the money go for it- I have learned a lot by just doing my own research and asking other weight lifters questions... I think most of it comes with practice anyway- you will get to figure out what works for your body best... only you can feel the burn anyway.... Alot of the basics are the same just don't go too heavy and research the proper forms, and go from there...

As far as looking like a body builder... most of those guys are on steriods and consume a hellacious amount of protein... keep in mind your diet has a tremendous effect on what your results will be

good luck!

**torofuerte** · May 15th, 2008, 05:28 PM

BTW,

Doing any form of squat, deadlift, lunge or overhead press on the smith is a horrible idea.

The smith machine has a fundamental (and retarded) flaw: that the bar travels strictly down a linear path. Whether it travels completely vertical or at slight angle, it's still a fixed path. It is absolutely impossible for this path to be the optimal lifting path for every single person that steps into it.

Some people may have the knowledge to work around this fundamental (and retarded) flaw. But the majority do not. The fact that it removes the stabilization factor from the lift, it can actually makes you weaker when the time comes to perform the lift free-form.

So unless there is nothing else to do, just say not to that retarded abomination.

**painless2** · May 15th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torofuerte

BTW,

Doing any form of squat, deadlift, lunge or overhead press on the smith is a horrible idea.

The smith machine has a fundamental (and retarded) flaw: that the bar travels strictly down a linear path. Whether it travels completely vertical or at slight angle, it's still a fixed path. It is absolutely impossible for this path to be the optimal lifting path for every single person that steps into it.

Some people may have the knowledge to work around this fundamental (and retarded) flaw. But the majority do not. The fact that it removes the stabilization factor from the lift, it can actually makes you weaker when the time comes to perform the lift free-form.

So unless there is nothing else to do, just say not to that retarded abomination.

For the record, proper form in in squat and deadlift with free weights follows a linear path