How many compound exercises can you do in one workout?

[orbot]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum and registered to get some expert consulting on fitness training, as I am quite new to it all. I am a frequent gym visitor and I want to push myself hard. I have a hard time being disciplined when it comes to eating right (I do eat my proteing, vitamins and carbs but I have a hard time staying away from soda and candy) - but that's another story, haha.

Since January I've been doing machines and gradually incoroprating free weights into my programs, but now I want the major part of my workout to use free weights and I want to do compound movements. Well, at least the "safe ones" that a beginner like I can do without such a great risk of injuries. I am however going to attempt to do some "clean & press" with moderate weights (I won't do that one until failure in fear of injuries if I do it wrong).

What I want to know is, how many compound exercises can you do in one workout? I mean, you want to be able to push yourself hard and if you deplete your energy in one exercise you won't be able to push yourself as hard in the next, right? I've previously had problems piecing together my machine workouts, and now I'm going to do exercises that work larger parts of the body which makes it even harder to fit the exercises together. This is where I need help.

I'm training 4-5 times a week and this is the program I want to start with now (you'll have to excuse my "layman terms" in some of these excercise names):

Day 1 - Legs, shoulders, triceps:
Deadlift + shrug (legs, back, shoulders), dips (triceps), military press (shoulders)

Day 2 - Biceps, lower back, abs:
Dumbbell curl (biceps), stiffleg (lower back), "sideway situps" (abs), high pull (I don't even know what this one does but it looks effective)

Day 3 - Back, legs, shoulders, triceps:
"Bent-over barbell lift" (triceps, lower back), squat (legs), raises (shoulders),

Day 4 - Pecs, abs, biceps:
Clean & press (overall), bench (biceps, pecs), ab crunch machine (abs),

What changes would you guys make to this program? Should I do the exercises in a certain order (for example, using "military press" as a form of warm-up to "dips" because in "military press" triceps is one of several muscles used but "dips" incorporates pretty much only the triceps so when doing "dips" you tend to push the triceps harder, or something like that?)

Also, I think these workouts look empty - there aren't enough individual exercises in them. I don't want to spend too much time in the gym but rather go for a short but intense program (~50 minutes inlcuding a 10 minute warm-up and a few minutes of stretching). I currently do eight reps and three sets of each exercise, some until failure but far from all.

When using machines I used to do 5-6 excersises - does that number change when I start doing compound exercises? Am I missing some important muscles? Should I fill out the program with some isolated muscle workout on machines?

Thanks in advance for your helful answers!

[Insex]

Hello orbot, and welcome to the Extreme Fitness message boards.

First off, what are your specific goals? Do you want to get bigger? Do you want to become stronger? Do you want to lose weight/body fat? Or do you want to achieve some combination of the three mentioned above or something different? If you cannot think of any goals, then tell us why you go to the gym.

Originally Posted by orbot

Day 4 - Pecs, abs, biceps:
Clean & press (overall), bench (biceps, pecs), ab crunch machine (abs),

By saying "Bench," I'm assuming you're referring to the Bench Press. That exercise targets the triceps, and pecs--as well as the anterior deltoids (front of the shoulders). Also, Dips are a very effective chest exercise too; they're not just for the triceps.

I think it is good that you are slowly incorporating compound movements into your exercise regimen. One must walk before they can run. My first suggestion is to schedule a training session with a qualified personal trainer who can instruct you on using good form for each of the compound exercises. The world wide web has many benefits, but one if its flaws is that I cannot see you perform these exercises in person. Since you are unfamiliar with these types of exercises, I highly recommend you meet with someone who is a qualified personal trainer and can see you perform these movements in person to make sure you are doing them correctly. All exercises can be safe if performed with correct form.

If arranging a session with a personal trainer is not an option, then you should at least look at the following website. Just click the link below and click on a body part for exercises to choose from, then click on the different exercise hyperlinks to see a picture/animation exercise instruction.

Male Exercise Map

The amount of exercises one can perform in a single workout depends on the individual's physical fitness level. Since you are new to these types of workouts, I suggest that you start off by working out 3 days a week. During each workout, choose 3 compound exercises to complete for the day. Do 3 sets for each exercise. Assuming that you are consistent and diligent with your workouts, your body will adapt to the workload and you will be able to workout more days a week and complete more exercises and/or sets during each workout.

Originally Posted by orbot

What I want to know is, how many compound exercises can you do in one workout? I mean, you want to be able to push yourself hard and if you deplete your energy in one exercise you won't be able to push yourself as hard in the next, right? I've previously had problems piecing together my machine workouts, and now I'm going to do exercises that work larger parts of the body which makes it even harder to fit the exercises together. This is where I need help.

This is where the importance of nutritional intake/diet come into play. If you are more disciplined in regards to eating right, then you would have more energy for your workouts. Complex carbohydrates, vegetables, essential fatty acids, fruits, and lean sources of protein all supply your body with the fuel it needs for demanding workouts. Fluid intake is also important. You need to keep your body hydrated throughout the day by drinking plenty of water. Lastly, consistency--you need to stick to your workout regimen. The more consistent you are, the more gains/improvements you'll see in your physique and abilities.

The others will be able to add on to my post with more helpful information. The important thing that you should do right now is make sure you are performing the exercises correctly, choose a workout regimen and stick to it. Also, once you mention what your goals are, we can tell you which exercises you should focus on and what your set and repetition scheme should be.

Hope that helps.

[orbot]

Originally Posted by Insex

Hello orbot, and welcome to the Extreme Fitness message boards.

Thank you very much.

Originally Posted by Insex

First off, what are your specific goals?

I want achievable goals so I'm not looking to get 5% body fat and have perfectly toned muscles. I probably will never pursue that but I might very well set higher goals once I've achieved my current goals.

Right now I just want to become bigger. Not enormous - just thicker, you know. I want to look robust, if that makes sense.

I have to admit I'm vain and that I like to see improvement on my arms and pecs first - but I do understand the importance of training the larger muscle groups too - so I don't cheat with the legs and back exercises.

I work in an office so I'm not looking to get big because I need it in my professional life. It's pure vanity and I'll do it just to feel good about myself.

Originally Posted by Insex

By saying "Bench," I'm assuming you're referring to the Bench Press. That exercise targets the triceps, and pecs--as well as the anterior deltoids (front of the shoulders). Also, Dips are a very effective chest exercise too; they're not just for the triceps.

You are correct, correct, and correct. I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Insex

My first suggestion is to schedule a training session with a qualified personal trainer who can instruct you on using good form for each of the compound exercises.

That sounds like a good idea. I made an attempt at stifflegs today - with little weights, mind you - and I found it very hard to do it without the feeling haunting me that my back would snap if I added weight. As I said, I've done mostly machines before - so currently I feel a little out of place with the free weights.

I'll check out the link you posted, thanks.

Originally Posted by Insex

The amount of exercises one can perform in a single workout depends on the individual's physical fitness level. Since you are new to these types of workouts, I suggest that you start off by working out 3 days a week. During each workout, choose 3 compound exercises to complete for the day. Do 3 sets for each exercise. Assuming that you are consistent and diligent with your workouts, your body will adapt to the workload and you will be able to workout more days a week and complete more exercises and/or sets during each workout.

I'll doubt I'll be able to lower my workout frequency - I've been going to the gym 4-5 times a week previously. I think I'll continue with the workout frequency, but I'll lower the amount of exercises in my workout to ease my body into the new program.

I have to add that I've been carefully changing up my program every 8 weeks throughout the past year - so I'm no stranger to the concept.

Originally Posted by Insex

This is where the importance of nutritional intake/diet come into play. If you are more disciplined in regards to eating right, then you would have more energy for your workouts. Complex carbohydrates, vegetables, essential fatty acids, fruits, and lean sources of protein all supply your body with the fuel it needs for demanding workouts. Fluid intake is also important. You need to keep your body hydrated throughout the day by drinking plenty of water.

Indeed. As I said in my original post I am aware that my diet is one of my greatest problems - one that I need to address right away. I need to learn to eat breafast, and to eat on set times. Exercise discipline is not my problem - eating discipline is.

What I need help with, however, is how I should piece together my workout program. I have some random questions:

1. Is it true what I have heard, that you should try to avoid exercising opposing muscles in the same workout day, such as biceps/triceps? I've tried to adhere to this in my previous programs, and it has made piecing together the workouts a bit of a jigsaw puzzle.

2. Developing my first program on machines, I brainlessly picked out pretty much every machine that worked a specific muscle group and did all those machines in one workout. Pecs, for example - I would do both the machine where you push your arms straight up above your head (like a military press where you sit instead of stand), the machine where you push your arms straight forward (like a bench press where you sit up instead of lie down), and the machine where you push your arms diagonally upwards (like a mix between the previous two). I also wonder what the difference would be in muscle training between pushing out from the chest (e.g. bench press) and pulling the arms together in front of the chest (pec fly)? How exactly do all of the above train the pecs differently? When doing pecs in my new program, should I alter between these types of exerciese, so that I change the angle of the exercise motion between weeks or something?

3. Speaking of pecs, can anyone point me to a website where I can read about good exercises for the pecs? Ones that train the outside (by the armpits), ones that train the center, and ones that "lift" from underneath. Does that have to do with the exercise motion angles in my previous question?

Thanks for you answers Insex - I'd be glad if you wanted to give me some more information now that you know a little more about my goals.

If anyone else feels like helping out a novice body builder, I'm here and I'm like a sponge for your knowledge.

[IMFREAKZILLA]

the push /pull routine, one day bench,squat,legs,shoulders,dip,calf raise this
equals a push day,a pull day would go like this dead lift,bent over rows,up right rows
shoulder shrugs,pull ups and bicep curls,maybe this can steer your routine in the right
direction ,workout days would have to be up to you and how you feel after the first day.
Its def not something you would want to go 100% with cause it will surely wear you
out in a hurry,but if you stay with it,and use weight in moderation I think things would
work out well for you,welcome to EF.........IMF..tris come into the push day=bench

[orbot]

Thank you, IMFREAKZILLA, that push/pull concept makes sense. I'll try to design my program around pushing and pulling every other day - then part of the variation in the program comes naturally.

[Hans_Rachid]

Originally Posted by orbot

Pecs, for example - I would do both the machine where you push your arms straight up above your head (like a military press where you sit instead of stand)...

This is a shoulders exercise, it doesn't significantly work the pecs.

Originally Posted by orbot

3. Speaking of pecs, can anyone point me to a website where I can read about good exercises for the pecs? Ones that train the outside (by the armpits), ones that train the center, and ones that "lift" from underneath. Does that have to do with the exercise motion angles in my previous question?

You're thinking too much, your pecs work as a single unit, so as long as you do heavy compound lifts with good form you'll see improvements all around. That said, incline bench press might put more stress on the upper part of your pectoral muscles, decline bench press on the lower part, flies on the outer part and cable crossovers on the inner part.
Generally the pressing movements (including dips and push ups) are considered compound lifts because they involve more than one muscle, while the flies and cable crossovers are isolation exercises. It's good to combine both, by starting with the tough compound lifts and finishing with the needlework.
A good website is the one suggested by Insex, with a huge list of exercsises for each body part : Exercise & Muscle Directory

Last thing: no, you don't have to avoid working opposing muscles in the same workout, that's nonsense. People work quads and hamstrings in one session all the time, just as supersetting biceps and triceps can be effective. Nothing wrong with working chest and back in the same workout either.

Actually, this would be a good 3-day split:
A) quads, hamstrings, calves
B) chest, back, abs
C) shoulders, biceps, triceps

[IMFREAKZILLA]

you quite welcome orbot,with the right meal ratios
you can grow or cut.I used this routine always.....
IMF ps so did arnold schwarzenegger

[IMFREAKZILLA]

I forgot to mention ,you can use this on a split routine starting out as
in mon ,tues,thursday,friday........off wed,sat,sun called 4 and 3 just
to start,then you can go to 5 and 2 or 6 and 1 if you come that far.
Take care IMF