Start-up help needed...

gorez · October 26th, 2006, 03:18 AM

OK, probably the wrong forum to deal with this question, but as there are some experienced photographers listed here, I give it a try:

Years ago I was into photography (Canon AE1), and gave it all away for other interests. I tried again with Canon EOS,but now I´m really thinking about some digital equipment. Canon 350 or 400 make DSLR cameras affordable for pure amateurs just like me.

To get to the point: I won´t get me some "starter-kit", due to the low value of lenses. But what to choose? SIGMA lenses ("EX"series), or Canon themselves ("L" series) offer better lenses in various numbers. Prizes differ totally, but does quality differ the same way ?

Hope someone give me a slight hint, where to start not wasting my money in the very beginning.. !!

**mmabox** · October 26th, 2006, 08:03 AM

The Canon 20d with the Canon 17-85mm is a great start. I used that combo for years and took some great pics with it. Check out the Liza Larence thread....all of the pictures I took were with that camera/lens. I'm not sure how much money you are willing to spend but I just got the Nikon D200 with the 18-200mm lens which is also an excellent choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorez

OK, probably the wrong forum to deal with this question, but as there are some experienced photographers listed here, I give it a try:

Years ago I was into photography (Canon AE1), and gave it all away for other interests. I tried again with Canon EOS,but now I´m really thinking about some digital equipment. Canon 350 or 400 make DSLR cameras affordable for pure amateurs just like me.

To get to the point: I won´t get me some "starter-kit", due to the low value of lenses. But what to choose? SIGMA lenses ("EX"series), or Canon themselves ("L" series) offer better lenses in various numbers. Prizes differ totally, but does quality differ the same way ?

Hope someone give me a slight hint, where to start not wasting my money in the very beginning.. !!

thecameraguy99 · October 26th, 2006, 09:15 AM

What's your budget range?

**Vizigoth** · October 27th, 2006, 12:44 AM

That's me. I have seven Canons. Three are film, and four are digital. If the 20D is too expensive for your taste, go with the Rebel XT. It has the same CCD (the chip that actually records the image) as the 20D, and it is considerably less expensive. It is not as durable as the as the 20D, whose frame is partially made of steel. The Rebel is all plastic. Several of my friends have the Rebel at my recommendation (some for many years) and have been quite happy with the results.

I prefer Canon lenses over aftermarket lenses. They last longer and perform more consistently. Aftermarket lenses will work fine for most folks, though. I do recommend a small telephoto lens, such as the 18-55mm. It is frequently sold in a package set with the Rebel. The 17-55mm f2.8 IS lens is much better, but is more expensive than the camera we are discussing. The lower the f number is, the better the lens will shoot in low light conditions. IS = image stabilized. USM = ultra-sonic metering. B&H Photo in New York is one of the most price competitive companies around for camera gear. The folks at Cameraworld of Oregon are also great and can answer a lot of your questions. Be wary of buying Canon lenses that were not made for the US market. If anything ever goes wrong with them, US camera repair shops will not fix them and you will have to ship them out of the country for repair. I have sixteen Canon lenses. None of them have ever broken and three of them are non-US lenses. There are a few bells and whistles differing between the 20D and Rebel. A great place to compare any digital cameras is www.steves-digicams.com/

Another factor to consider is what media you will put into the camera. By media, I mean the CompactFlash (CF) Cards that the images are recorded on. Different cameras write better to different brands of cameras. Of course, when the cameras are designed, they are optimized to work best with a particular brand of CF card. My experience has been that Lexar and SanDisk have worked fastest for me using Canon cameras. SanDisk is the company that first invented and successfully marketed the CF card. A great site for objective tests of what cameras work best with which media can be found at http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp/

Recently, I photographed tests for Black Belts at a local dojo. In an hour of shooting, I shot more than 10,000 images. I burned each test to a DVD with the shots each taking one second. The recipients loved the shots, as it was a stop action shot of each move that was made. I was shooting a EOS-1DS II and shooting four frames per second. It was an absolute gas to do the shoot and even the sensei had his mind blown when he saw the shots. Just so I could have continuity, I had an assistant shooting the tests on video tape, and those also made for good shows. However, it was the stop action shots that really captivated the clients.

What will you do with your images when you shoot them? You will need image processing software to really make them look good. I strongly recommend Photo Shop Elements ($100). It has the more important features of the much more expensive Photoshop. Just playing with Contrast and Shadows can make an image dramatically pop off the screen.

gorez · October 29th, 2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecameraguy99

What's your budget range?

The very end will be about 1,000 $ - otherwise my wife will kill me...

The f4 24-105 L seems to be excellent, if I trust in threads on several DSLR forums... But due to my budget range, this will have to wait.

Or, wait,I´ll sell the kids on ebay

**Vizigoth** · October 29th, 2006, 03:12 AM

B&H has the Canon Rebel XT in a package deal with the 18-55mm lens for $689. Add a 1 GB CF card and you are at $750. I believe they do not charge sales tax for out of state sales. Perhaps the lens included in the package deal is negotiable. It does not hurt to ask them:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

My own personal favorite lens for general use is the 28-135mm IS USM f3.5-5.6 unit ($500). Of all my lenses, I use this one for about 40% of my shooting. I did not see it on the B&H web site, though they may have it in stock. Cameraworld does have it and may allow a negotiation on the lens (though they want more for the camera body):

http://www.cameraworld.com/product/541160685.htm

Cameraworld also does not charge sales tax and might match B&H's price.

You will also want a tri-pod, a remote shutter release, a bag, along with haze and polarizing filters to protect your lens, and a few accessories. Be careful not to over spend up front. There will be a few things that you will want, and remember that Christmas is coming.

porters.com is a great place for inexpensive accessories, too.

gorez · November 3rd, 2006, 04:43 PM

Thanx a lot, guys ! Things are getting clearer to me. Nice page giving lots of advice,too: www.fredmiranda.com/reviews Maybe worth a look for other"dummies" like me...

I think I´ll start with the 400d body and a SIGMA 18-50 EX. This should solve the problem with the kit lense.

A UV(0) filter for frontlense protection has to wait till christmas...

Some say the 400d body (as the 350d as well) is too small and the solution would be a battery grip (BG-3 ?). but this seems to be rather an "upgrade" to achieve a better "overall look" than an improvement of the camera handling, huh ?

**Vizigoth** · November 3rd, 2006, 05:33 PM

Don't wait on that filter. I have dropped lenses on their filters twice and the shattered filter saved the lens. Though plastic, a Tiffen UV lens is cheap and certainly better than no protection on that lens. It will also keep the lens element cleaner and reduces the number of times it has to be touched for cleaning. Every time that lens is touched, even for cleaning, it reduces the coating on the optics. When you've got more money to spend get a good ground glass filter, such as those made by B&W. On the battery grip, you would need to buy an extra battery anyway to put into the grip. Changing batteries takes seconds. Just buy a second battery and change it as needed. Always keep the spare in your pocket.

BTW, you do know that the 350D and the Rebel XT are the same camera? The names are different for US vs. "foreign" distribution. Will there be a problem getting the 350D serviced locally for you?

gorez · November 4th, 2006, 09:48 AM

Yes, I know that canon named the camera "rebel xt"(350d) and "rebel xti"(400d) for some odd reason in US and europe different...

No, getting the rebel xt (350d) would certainly not be a probleme here, but some facts (larger display, autofocus of 30d,..) made the choice easier.

You´re right with the filter - it would be nonsense spending money on a better lense and saving some bucks for protection...!!

gorez · December 17th, 2006, 06:46 AM

Hi guys, me again...

I now have a Canon Rebel xti with sigma 2.8/18-50 EX.
All fine so far. pics are sharp and clear, come as jpegs or as raws.

Unfortunately most raw converters seem to be unable to work with the raw format (cr2)...!?

Right now I use the canon converter that was part of the software bundle.
Is there some cheap and reliable software out there or should I stay to the canon converter?

Shooting in jpeg was not what I intended...

**Vizigoth** · December 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM

RAW is really the way to go. What picture processing software do you use to process shots? Adobe recently released RAW converter 3.6. It is a plug-in utility for Photoshop, and probably Photoshop Elements 5.0 that allows the software to process CR2 shots. Photoshop Elements is an excellent beginner to intermediate picture processing software package. Retail is about $100. It can easily be gotten for less than $80 on line, and there is a $20 rebate going on now. Just be sure that the RAW plug-in I speak of is also suitable for Elements. I use the full version of Photoshop, so do not know for certain about Elements.

gorez · December 17th, 2006, 05:55 PM

I use "Ulead PhotoImpact1.2". A friend said it would be reliable and worth a try for a beginner, so I did.
At the moment I just go in a rush through the pics, just changing here and there a setting (standard, portrait,landscape,/sharpness,contrast..) saving pics as .tif documents and have a closer look at them in the software.
To get used to the software I started working on older pics taken with an IXUS digicam.(Incredible differences in colour, lighting,..between shots of the same sequence!!? I hope this will be history with the xti..!!!)

**Vizigoth** · December 17th, 2006, 09:45 PM

If you are shooting in JPEG, stick with it when saving shots. There are variations between the various compression formats, and most of time when you change formats, you throw away data that the original format might have used. Use .tiff to save your RAW images with. Tiffs are the best format most of the time, especially when saving your RAW images. Another thing to consider, is to burn your images (no matter what format they are in) to a CD or DVD before you do anything to them. Changes in Technology cannot always be foreseen, and if some major step forward is made, you may wish to have the original unmodified shot files in order to take maximum advantage of the new technology.

On a typical wedding, we shoot 1000-2000 shots (usually myself and 1-2 assistants). First thing done when we return from the shoot, is to put the shots into a "safe" format of storage where they cannot be accidentally lost. Only on a rare occasion do we need those stored images, but we are always glad to have the untouched shot files. Every time you modify a shot and save it, there is a certain amount of "noise" created in the stored image. If you take the same shot and run it through several processes after each of which you save the shot, the shot will not be as clear as if you took the original shot and ran it through fewer steps to achieve the same result. Sometimes, the result can be extremely apparent. I have only been doing serious digital work for about two years. Recently, I took my improved Photoshop skills and applied them to some of my early shots. The difference was a revelation.

gorez · December 18th, 2006, 05:19 PM

Thanx, Vizigoth, that´s really a good advice! And you´re damn rigth with eitherthe technical improvement and the improvement of personal skills: Just as i said, I´m working on early shot taken 3 years ago. And the results with now improved technique and skills are easy to see even for a beginner as me !