Holy Sh@t, what did you do America??

[linemanpaul]

I know that all those who voted for Obama must have read this man's agenda before it was posted here on his new website, but just incase you were blinded by his aura, read it and you will be surprised and and be ashamed. You wanted change you got alot more than you might of thought

The Agenda.

[SAINT_X]

Oh yes, by all means...what were we thinking? We could've voted for McCain ( Bush III ) and Palin ( didn't even know what the Bush Doctrine is/was) .

[johnny_on_the_spot]

i skimmed through it, im a pretty in the middle guy, and there wasnt too much that really seemed awful. what exactly are you looking at?

[SAINT_X]

I wouldn't put much stock in LP on political matters ... didn't hear him ringing the alarm on the Bush agenda. If you couldn't see that one coming you better not expect to carry on with just a whole lot of credibility for quite some time.

Mind you, I like LP and he knows alot of other useful stuff....

[JimmymonFreddy]

Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot

i skimmed through it, im a pretty in the middle guy, and there wasnt too much that really seemed awful. what exactly are you looking at?

yes linemanpaul, I buzzed through it too and didn't see anything that was all that bad. so if I missed something that was needing looked at, please bring it to our attention

[pliny_2001]

You want to just highlight the surprised/ashamed part of the agenda? Because I didn't really run across it at first glance.

[jim00]

Can you identify a particular part? It did not look all that bad. Looks like he's got a good agenda.

[tooncesthecat]

An agenda like the one posted isn't too bad on paper. The real question will be how will he be able to pull it off? Any dumbass can dream of a nice little utopia like this, but how much $$$$ will it cost and what will the hidden costs be to the people and businesses of the country? This economic "crisis" might be better left alone (for the most part). The US screwed up and prolonged the Great Depression for over 10 years. In the end, it was WWII that finally ended it. Most of the time big government plans screw up the economy.

[linemanpaul]

To the optimists, please answer a few questions about "The Obama Plan

The Economy

It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe. Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy – where a lack of spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending; where an inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less credit.

Give an example of any Government Agency that can break the cycle, since Government Agencies are the ones that allowed this crippled economy to occur

To build an economy that can lead this future, we will begin to rebuild America. Yes, we’ll put people to work repairing crumbling roads, bridges, and schools by eliminating the backlog of well-planned, worthy and needed infrastructure projects.

I can see all the big corporate CEO's skydiving with their golden parachutes to start digging ditches for $8.00 per hour on a make work road project.

Immigration

Improve Our Immigration System: Fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.


Bring People Out of the Shadows: Support a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

Work with Mexico: Promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.

Sorry, the immigration policy just answered the labor issue for the "Rebuilding of America" to " meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill".

Just a few thoughts on some of what seems strange about "The Agenda"

[linemanpaul]

Originally Posted by SAINT_X

I wouldn't put much stock in LP on political matters ... didn't hear him ringing the alarm on the Bush agenda. If you couldn't see that one coming you better not expect to carry on with just a whole lot of credibility for quite some time.

Mind you, I like LP and he knows alot of other useful stuff....

Just remember, GW could not have done it without the Democrats voting "Yea"

[johnny_on_the_spot]

Originally Posted by linemanpaul

I can see all the big corporate CEO's skydiving with their golden parachutes to start digging ditches for $8.00 per hour on a make work road project.

im not sure what you mean by your comment or how this part of the plan is bad... as far as i can tell, that comment really doesnt make any sense... as someone who designs highways and interchanges, i can tell you that someone has to design them, the plans dont draw themselves

[burnt_thru]

Originally Posted by linemanpaul

To the optimists, please answer a few questions about "The Obama Plan

The Economy


Give an example of any Government Agency that can break the cycle, since Government Agencies are the ones that allowed this crippled economy to occur

the obvious answer would be "the new deal" from the great depression, though i understand some hardcore libitarians have issues with that analysis. it is certainly the mainstream view in economic thought.

keynesian economics, which is highly capitalist in nature, determines that the best way to escape from a depression or "bust" is for government to increase spending. this is also the mainstream view of economics. it's true that government allowed the current situation to occur, but so did businesses. infact businesses paid politicians to decrease regulation and precipitate this quagmire.

[jim00]

Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot

im not sure what you mean by your comment or how this part of the plan is bad... as far as i can tell, that comment really doesnt make any sense... as someone who designs highways and interchanges, i can tell you that someone has to design them, the plans dont draw themselves

I agree. In addition its not the CEO's that will be spending the money to rebound the economy. So who cares if these CEO's ever get back in the workforce (most of them are crooked anyhow are did not have the nuts to do what is right). Its the middle to lower class that make the economy run. Without them spending money on retail hurts and without jobs, government income hurts. Its a nice little domino effect we have here.

I think we need to fix it from the ground up. Relief needs to get into the middle class and make sure these folks do not lose their homes / jobs. If we can do this maybe we can restore faith in the markets and maybe spending will rise.


On a side note the only thing Bush did well was creating the do not call registry and pardoning those border patrol officers that were convicted. Lame duck.

[helpmespock]

Originally Posted by linemanpaul

To the optimists, please answer a few questions about "The Obama Plan

The Economy


Give an example of any Government Agency that can break the cycle, since Government Agencies are the ones that allowed this crippled economy to occur



I can see all the big corporate CEO's skydiving with their golden parachutes to start digging ditches for $8.00 per hour on a make work road project.

Immigration



Sorry, the immigration policy just answered the labor issue for the "Rebuilding of America" to " meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill".

Just a few thoughts on some of what seems strange about "The Agenda"

LMP I just met with my financial advisor today. Republican white guy, late 30's avid golfer and entrapeneure, worth in the millions already. Avid McCain supporter....he told me today he anticipates Obama's economic stimulus package is "just what this economy needs to get going".....so I don't know maybe he aint so crazy after all....


as far as immigration fixing our labor problem....I once asked the owner of the construction company that built my current home why he used so many mexicans laborers....his answer...

"Young Americans don't want to work this hard for the kind of money this job pays...they'd rather collect welfare and sit at their mommy's house playing x box all day....These mexicans bust their ass for the money..."

Perhaps that is the heart of the situation.

[wil]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

as far as immigration fixing our labor problem....I once asked the owner of the construction company that built my current home why he used so many mexicans laborers....his answer...

"Young Americans don't want to work this hard for the kind of money this job pays...they'd rather collect welfare and sit at their mommy's house playing x box all day....These mexicans bust their ass for the money..."

Perhaps that is the heart of the situation.

Perhaps something needs to be done to fix welfare so it doesn't reward people for sitting around. But good luck with that since it won't be too long before there are more people getting benefits than there are actual taxpayers.

Originally Posted by burnt_thru

it's true that government allowed the current situation to occur, but so did businesses. infact businesses paid politicians to decrease regulation and precipitate this quagmire.

Actually I think what happened (at least from what I can tell in the case of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) is that a pair of Gov't Sponsored Entities paid off politicians to not enforce regulations and/or to cover up their failures. So you had gov't paying off the gov't. Yeah... I want those guys running the whole show.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220...googlenews_wsj

[Steel_UK]

Sounds a bit like what we have going on in the UK, with regards to the welfare state.

[burnt_thru]

Originally Posted by wil

Actually I think what happened (at least from what I can tell in the case of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) is that a pair of Gov't Sponsored Entities paid off politicians to not enforce regulations and/or to cover up their failures. So you had gov't paying off the gov't. Yeah... I want those guys running the whole show.

the fannie and freddie collapse was only one of the contributing factors to this current crisis. then again, both organisations were largely privitised, and seemed to work far better before this privitisation occured.. the issues in the financial sector cross a broad range of companies. certainly the likes of enron cannot be characterised as a government failiure.

[ckn]

I hope Obama brings back proper capitalism where shareholders get both the good and the bad. The last administration's socialised capitalism, where the shareholders and senior manglement get all the credit and money in good times but the market and the taxpayers get to bail them out in the bad times, was a bad deal for everyone bar those getting the bailout money.

The biggest thing though about Obama for me is that already relations have thawed towards America from so many different countries. Americans have no real comprehension about how much business America has lost over the last eight years due to other countries being treated badly and huge amounts of bad-will being built up. For example, one of the last things that the Bush administration rushed to implement before the inauguration was a 300% duty on French cheese!

[wil]

Originally Posted by ckn

For example, one of the last things that the Bush administration rushed to implement before the inauguration was a 300% duty on French cheese!

AWESOME!!!

EDIT>>> Just looked at wikipedia's list of French cheeses. I didn't see american, mozzarella, cheddar, or provolone on the list, so I personally don't care if we never import any more French cheeses again.

[SAINT_X]

Originally Posted by wil

AWESOME!!!

EDIT>>> Just looked at wikipedia's list of French cheeses. I didn't see american, mozzarella, cheddar, or provolone on the list, so I personally don't care if we never import any more French cheeses again.

GO CARDINALS!!!!

( SAINT_X is descended from the Frenchies and holds them in high regard... )