United States of Europe - Presidency

[Steel_UK]

I can't say I'm overly keen about how we've made another step towards this "United States of Europe" with the Lisbon treaty and the fact that said "treaty" creates the job of a European President.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

[ckn]

I'm no great fan of the European Union but I'm realist enough to know that our place (the UK) as a world power is under real threat. Having a few nukes on world-class nuclear subs is no longer enough to keep us there. Obama is creating a new G- group of trading nations that does not include the UK, or any other EU country, apparently it's the EU or nothing.

China will eventually control enough that they'll be a genuine world power, if Russia sorts itself out it has enough natural resources and manpower to get back there, same with India, the US will still be at the top table but the EU countries individually will become less and less relevant to the major powers.

In my mind, the only way that we can keep our place as major world powers is through a greater EU. I'd be personally happy with a stricter form of federalisation than the US has with each nation state having more powers than individual US states but still subject to wider "federal" laws.

[Steel_UK]

This is something that you've just highlighted. The media has made no obvious mention about the trading groups that Obama is creating.

I suspect people like myself wouldn't be so concerned about the new EU setup if we were told the reasons properly, rather than just being told the government (which we have a strong distaste of) has decided to support such and such EU directive or idea etc.

To be honest, I didn't know that Europe was being excluded from trading big time with the USA.

And may I ask why you refer to us as a world power? I have the impression that disappeared some years ago, particularly when we started just following the USA and continually undermined our own organisations. Ontop of this we have little manufacturing industry or industry creating mass wealth compared to a lot of nations, we have become a service industry and appear to be spiralling to 3rd world nation status.

[RunningMan27]

I view UK as a world power (along with many other countries in Europe) because of their contributions on a wider scale than industry alone. The UK may not be what it was 200 years ago in terms of colonies or % of global wealth, but they could never be a Third World country in my opinion. Their involvment with the world's general well-being speaks volumes. The solid relationships with other countries throughout the globe allows for a strong presence in trade, also. Also, I believe countries' contributions to the entertainment industry...movies, music, literature, and sports is a solid measure of global position - something that the UK has had a stronghold in for decades and I can't see that slipping.

While the term was meant to designate countries from the First World (democracy) and Second World (communism) it is applied generally to countries that have political turmoil, famine, and other natural resource problems...none of which should be going on in UK for a long time (if ever)...I hope not, at least, for everyone's sake.

[ckn]

Originally Posted by Steel_UK

And may I ask why you refer to us as a world power? I have the impression that disappeared some years ago, particularly when we started just following the USA and continually undermined our own organisations. Ontop of this we have little manufacturing industry or industry creating mass wealth compared to a lot of nations, we have become a service industry and appear to be spiralling to 3rd world nation status.

The UK is a world power for these reasons:

- we hold a permanent seat on the UN Security Council with a veto right. We are only one of 5 nations in the world to hold this right. We can stop any UN declaration involving security matters outright if it threatens our interests. If we gave up our nukes, we'd automatically lose the seat and the veto.

- we have the world's largest trading centre in London. It used to be NY but the asian countries, middle-east and african countries don't like the heavy scrutiny that the US government puts on companies listed in NY. London has attracted those companies with a light-touch regulation. I disagree with this light regulation but if we tightened it up, the companies would de-list and go somewhere they could get away with it. We also hold world-leading commodities and bond markets.

- we are one of only 5 nations able to genuinely project power via our military. That said, the current government are doing their best to ruin that. Very few countries could do a Falklands War type mission now, the UK is just hanging on there as one of them.

- we hold the leadership of the Commonwealth giving us huge influence over the emerging nations of Africa.

There are others but those are the ones I can think of while at my desk and getting ready to log off!

[Steel_UK]

Thank you for putting me right CKN.