Chi gets Debunked

**PythonPower** · November 7th, 2006, 02:30 AM

http://www.filecabi.net/video/chi-toes.html

kingkirby · November 7th, 2006, 05:57 AM

Oh Man! I'm glad you liked that, I saw it a while ago. I find it pretty interesting that 'Hypnotic Suggestion' can compel people to be 'knocked out' by Chi. The whole thing seems pretty wierd to me. I know the guy is a martial arts legend, but something about him seems pretty shifty. Anyway, I do however believe that Chi exists to a certain degree. Between Tai Chi and extended sessions of Jeet Kune Do, I've experienced something that closely mirrors the 'runner's high', but it seems longer lasting and conciousness altering. I'm sure there's a physiological explanation to it, but back in the day they just called it Chi I guess. The other funny thing about the video was that I kept thinking that these martial artists really thought they could be Ryu from street fighter! "Hyrouken!"

**timzombie** · November 7th, 2006, 06:45 AM

bump chi bump

kayodot · November 7th, 2006, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkirby

Anyway, I do however believe that Chi exists to a certain degree. Between Tai Chi and extended sessions of Jeet Kune Do, I've experienced something that closely mirrors the 'runner's high', but it seems longer lasting and conciousness altering. I'm sure there's a physiological explanation to it, but back in the day they just called it Chi I guess. The other funny thing about the video was that I kept thinking that these martial artists really thought they could be Ryu from street fighter! "Hyrouken!"

Agreed on all counts. Having experience in the Chinese arts (Weihai Li Shi Quan Fa), exercises such as 'the unbending arm' are pretty compelling evidence of qi.

That said, it's nothing I would ever use in a fight.

Oh, and it's 'sho ryu ken'.

**tidalwave** · November 7th, 2006, 10:37 AM

It's a shame. George Dillman was supposedly quite a good instructor until he got greedy and starting spraying his 'chi' at people. I guess credibility doesn't pay the bills.

Anyhow, from what I can tell, chi is used to explain (using concepts native to Chinese medicine) the high degree of bodyskill exhibited by truely exceptional martial artists. This bodyskill is more-or-less efficient transfer of force through the skeletal structure without relying solely upon muscular exertion. On the receiving end, it ellicits a different feeling from simply being 'muscled around', so it is understandable that a 'mystical' explanation would be applied.

Check out this video:
youtube video: snYlMC6gUoM
or search youtube for "Akuzawa Minoru 2"
(sorry, i the board won't let me post URLs with under 15 posts to my name)

The Japanese instructor in that video is a former Sanda champion with a background in Chinese MA. He's not doing any static demonstrations like the unbending arm, but he's showing how this bodyskill can be used in a dynamic environment against resisting opponents. It may not look very impressive, but I can assure you that the guy in the first scene is fully resisting and is a strong dude. If you actually felt this instructor's hands when he's throwing you around, you'd wonder how he can generate that much force. Furthermore, this instructor does not purport to be using any mystical chi powers or even superior leverage, it is all through carefully trained bodyskill.

It's easy to see why people (or the martial artists themselves) would try to explain this through a concept such as chi.

Hope this helps!

waterdragon · November 9th, 2006, 02:30 AM

what this instuctor seem to be offering si the qiuck fix, learning martials arts without ever having to fight or even touh an opponent which to many peoplei very, very appealing but is absoulte rubbish.

Practices like this started a long time ago by people pretending to be masters and then the stories spread, and these dasy chi/qi has become this mystical word that people over use to explain anything that they don't understand.

I have see many demos of qi some good and soe not so good. I believe it is a real thing but you have to e realistic about it, if you can't fight to begin with then you will never get the chance to use your amazing qi on someone.

**TheManWhoCan** · November 9th, 2006, 08:12 PM

Ya I saw that before, and it's still a load. Chi is your internal spirit, your life force so to speak. You can't project/spray your chi a la Dragon ball Z onto anybody else. How do those students buy that?

Personally, I also believe chi exists. And I also believe it does not require somebody to be in an absolute peak physical condition to "channel" it. Chi is in the mind, so I believe.

It's not that chi has been debunked, it's whoever this guy is has been debunked.

**tidalwave** · November 10th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManWhoCan

Personally, I also believe chi exists. And I also believe it does not require somebody to be in an absolute peak physical condition to "channel" it.
.

This is a good point to make.

Peak physical condition is not always required for powerful strikes, throws, etc in internal martial arts (where the chi thing comes from). I think this is part of the origin of the concept of chi. People have witnessed old martial artists, without much muscular strength, perform powerful strikes and throws on much younger, larger opponents. They conclude that it is manpulation of some mysterious life-force. However, it's just superior body mechanics, which also could be classified as chi.

Watch some videos of these old guys. Many of them move differently than those who are younger or less skilled. They rely on bodyskill to compensate for their lack of muscular strength and weight. So, in that respect, it is primarily in the mind (or at least muscle memory).