MMA fans?

acoz47 · January 15th, 2009, 03:14 PM

The 31st is a great rematch between B.J. -VS- G.S.P. the first fight was awesome going the distance. Anyone have a favorite or a prediction. They are both great fighters maybe two of the best. I personally cant wait for Anderson The Spider to really test the waters of 205 lbs.

**ItalianStallion** · January 15th, 2009, 03:21 PM

im takin gsp..i think hes top 3 or 4 best fighters in the world at pound 4 pound rankin..whilei believe penn is good i think gsp is betta....anderson silva is a beast who can not lose...he will eventually tho, he will make a piss poor decision n get caught by sum1 n it'll change him...everyone now is afraid of him but once he loses people will fight him less scared n he wont be as dominate...i for one can not wait until the 24th when Arlovski fights Fedor...fedor is a beast n has been but I love Arlovski n think he can rly rain on fedors parade....also i have shogun n defeating coleman n henderson beatin franklin this weekend

acoz47 · January 15th, 2009, 03:31 PM

Word, .! I think you correct on all accounts but Fedor, hes a bad man with bad intentions. Either way gonna be good! Peace Brother

**BlackMagicPanther** · January 15th, 2009, 04:00 PM

Anderson Silva has said a couple of times that he intends to retire at the end of this year, and I don't think there is anyone who can beat him in that time period. Except maybe Maia. As a serious afficiando of BJJ, I would love to see that matchup.

As far as Penn and GSP, I am torn on it big time. Penn is far more serious about his career now than when they last fought. GSP is a great fighter, and I think quite a few of their traits and skills are a wash. It'll depend on how BJ puts on the 15 pounds. If he adds muscle mass and not come in out of shape like he seemed in their last fight, I think Penn takes it.

**torofuerte** · January 15th, 2009, 04:31 PM

IIRC, BJ doesn't need to add lbs. He simply has to cut less weight. After all, he was a welterweight champ before when he choked Hughes in 2004. BJ makes it to lightweight (155lbs) by dropping weight (he's easily over 170lbs). I've read somewhere that GSP walks around 190lbs.

And that's what you got to remember: walking weight = fighting weight.

You have to remember that weight classes are not based on their day-to-day weights (or what's called as "walking weights".) These guys can lose up to 20lbs... or more for those cutting weight for heavy weight and light heavy weight) to make up weight and fight in a weight class, a gradual process that takes place over a period of days, even weeks before the fight.

I have to go with GSP. That dude is on a roll.

**BlackMagicPanther** · January 15th, 2009, 05:00 PM

Toro, I wasn't basing my comments on walking weight, but on what Penn's physique was when he fought GSP as opposed to what he is now that he is fighting at 155. If he is really just going to cut less weight, then GSP has a massive advantage, cuz Penn will gas big time as he did in their first fight and in his fight with Hughes. However, if he decides to work his butt off to add muscle to his frame as opposed to looking overweight as he did in their first fight, I think he takes GSP.

**torofuerte** · January 15th, 2009, 05:13 PM

Ah, my bad, I interpreted your post wrong. BJ has been known to lack focus from time to time.

However, adding muscle doesn't necessarily help. This is, after all, a highly anaerobic sport. There is people who actually function better with some "fatty padding". Take "Cabbage" Correira. That heavyweight fighter looks obese and yet has a gas tank that is just obscene.

Also, if he adds more muscle, he runs the trouble of cutting weight. Cutting weight is first and foremost a manipulation of body fat, and in the last stages, just days prior to the day of weight ins (which is usually one or two days prior), it's about a gradual loss of water content, just so that they get their right number when stepping on the scales.

A fighter could add muscle beyond what his natural frame currently has, and he could add so much that inevitably he will have to cut on water weight to make weight. The more water weight you cut, the harder it is to recover for the fight... and that can really get you to gas.

What they do to recover their fluids depends on how much they cut water weight. An acquaintance of mine had to use an IV to replenish himself after making weight for a local MMA event in Miami a few years ago.

Remember, the goals of these two fighters is to make weight, to drop weight. Adding muscle is just something coincidental to their sport-related strength training, and it depends on how well a fighter operates anaerobically with a given body composition.

If he really gasses out, it will be because he really screwed up in his training for that purpose, and didn't take the fight seriously (he could very well make that mistake, since he is that hot headed.)

I think it will GSP winning by decision

**A1food4U** · January 15th, 2009, 05:21 PM

Opinions on Lesnar? That's some serious beef to push around. Or do you think his legs are a week spot to be exploited the way Mir did?

**mooshue** · January 15th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1food4U

Opinions on Lesnar? That's some serious beef to push around. Or do you think his legs are a week spot to be exploited the way Mir did?

Lesner is no where near as cut as he was in his wwe days, hes actually quite flabby in comparison. I don't see lesnars conditioning ever being an issue from what i've witnessed so far. He is quite the anomoly, biggest heavyweight around yet moves like a lightweight, absolutely insane.

As far as pen/st pierre. I don't see what the big deal is. I really don't like these fighters that jump around weight classes. I have to agree with Sean Sherk on this issue. Pen should either stay the champ and only fight in his weight class or dump the belt to move around. There's too many guys near the top that probably deserve a title shot but can't because the current champ is off fighting for another class.

But, this is Dana White's style. It's not about being fair, its about drawing in numbers and these types of fights is what does it. UFC really has been turning into quite the WWE circus of shooting for entertainment rather than good quality fights. If someone isn't getting over with the crowd, they quietly dissappear.

**torofuerte** · January 15th, 2009, 06:36 PM

Mir seems to have "the fire" rekindled. The dude is hungry just like before his motorcycle accident, and he's much better now than in his first fight against Lesnar. He's coming hungry for that belt.

I'm sure Lesnar is not the same he was when he first fought Mir, but there is no way in hell that he would have improved his submission game to the point of even hold a candle to Mir's. It's far more likely that he has been improving his striking game and might be planning a game to trade punches with Mir, keep it standing, look for the temp-KO and then use his Chernobyl size and mad wrestling skills to win by stoppage due to Neanderthal hammer punches of doom.

I'd go with Mir by some slick, out-of-nowhere leg lock or something.

**wildstang** · January 16th, 2009, 12:18 AM

nah lesnar will destroy mir this time out of neccesity since he lost to him first time around and he is after all quite more powerfull and wont make the same mistake as the first time. mir cant take or hold his own against him in a standup game and will try and take it to the mat and lesnar will be prepared this time around. he's not your typical stupid farm boy as hes been labeled by many!

**ItalianStallion** · January 16th, 2009, 01:54 AM

u all kno my opinons on other fights...BUT i think Arlovski will take it to Fedor...match him punch 4 punch, n i think he can pull out a decision win which would be enough i think? but on to lesnar...I think the guy is a beast n frankly i think its unfair the weight he fights at...i think his weight should be capped at a 250 mark....220-250 weight i think is fair nething over is SUper Heavy ala Bob Sapp n such...lesnar while being a big dude i dont think is that great of a fighter...u drop him down 40 lbs to a 230/240 n no way is he the same dude technically speaking...his weight is what scares people n what makes them hurt when u try to move him, its not his skills....that bein said i dont kno ne1 who can beat him as hes so frickin big n tough...BUt i think MIr will take it to him again...1st fight lesnar came out swingin n got caught in a leg lock...this time MIr knows lesnar is smarter/better fighter but he also knos how lesnar hits so it wont "scare" him fightin him again...i think MIr will come in wit a better gameplan n win the outright title...few years ago before MMa went mainstream MIr was the badass than he got into a motocycle accident n dissapeared...now hes back fighting his way to the top...no easy breaks, this guy is a true champion

acoz47 · January 16th, 2009, 08:13 AM

Lesnar is the real deal can he be beat yes is he a monster yes will he beat Frank yes. IMO! BJ I don't think he ever looks in shape but no one can dispute his results. (Lately) I think G.S.P. has just evolved in to dominant an opponent if his head stays in the right place.

Peace

**ItalianStallion** · January 16th, 2009, 10:17 AM

the only skill lesnar might have is his wrestling ability...so many of the lightweights/ younger guys have skill in which u have to be better to beat them ala urijah faber, gsp, anderson silva even....others hav KO power like Liddell/Rampage...but Lesnar is still young to the sport n the only thing he has is his weight...granted thats a big thing n at the end of the day a W is a W but its like Tim Tebow from the florida gators in college football, he runs the ball n the team wins but the guy wont go top round of draft n is a hit or miss in the pros...just because it works doesnt mean its a quality or "skill"

**torofuerte** · January 16th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoz47

Lesnar is the real deal can he be beat yes is he a monster yes will he beat Frank yes. IMO! BJ I don't think he ever looks in shape but no one can dispute his results. (Lately) I think G.S.P. has just evolved in to dominant an opponent if his head stays in the right place.

Peace

Yeah because Mir, one of the best Black Belt BJJers in MMA is incapable of using his jiu jitsu to, I dunno, leg lock grappling novice Lesnar into submission.

It's impossible, it can never happen... oh wait.

As for Arlovski, I kinda lean for him to win over teh Fed0r-cyborg from Mother Russia... if he gets his fire rekindled. Arlovski has a much weaker chin compared to Fedor, BUT, Arlovski used to be a champ.

I dunno what happen to Andrei. It seems he lost his fire, his mental fire and hunger to win. The moment he lost a fight, he sort of lost that mental edge, that hunger. A lot of people think it's cliche, but it's that "hunger", that "kill mentality" that keep champions being champions. I can only guess the mental pressures that take a toll on them. There is a lot of sports psychology involved on such top levels. Very weird mental draining shit.

If he can pull his fire together again, his mental hunger to win, he could beat Fedor, perhaps not KO him, but take him to distance and win by decision. But if he's still without that "hunger", he could fold very quickly to Fedor's barrage, the fight will be over very quickly, and that will be a big disappointment since I like Arlovski a lot.

acoz47 · January 16th, 2009, 11:54 AM

If your going to quote me include the whole sentence. Yes I said Brock is going to when but thats my opinion. Franks was not winning any part of the original in fact he was being mauled. They are not playing judo they are not rollin in a jujitsu tournament they are doing the best they can to destroy their pone. I think Frank is awesome But you can be sure his game plan wont include waiting on his opponent to make a mistake in a title battle.

Peace

**mooshue** · January 16th, 2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torofuerte

Mir seems to have "the fire" rekindled. The dude is hungry just like before his motorcycle accident, and he's much better now than in his first fight against Lesnar. He's coming hungry for that belt.

I'm sure Lesnar is not the same he was when he first fought Mir, but there is no way in hell that he would have improved his submission game to the point of even hold a candle to Mir's. It's far more likely that he has been improving his striking game and might be planning a game to trade punches with Mir, keep it standing, look for the temp-KO and then use his Chernobyl size and mad wrestling skills to win by stoppage due to Neanderthal hammer punches of doom.

I'd go with Mir by some slick, out-of-nowhere leg lock or something.

I think Lesnar's initial thought would have been to stand with mir, until he saw mir destroy noguera with his stand up round after round after round. I haven't seen that pinpoint standup accuracy without getting so much at smacked by an opponant in mma since the great Maurice Smith.
I've always liked mir, then again i always like the local hero's here in Las Vegas. I remember being so dissappointed when his conditioning coach told me he was done while training for his first comeback fight, wouldnt listen, wouldnt do cardio. He has overcome not only the physical aspect, but he was beat mentally for years and now appears to be right back in th game.

**torofuerte** · January 16th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoz47

If your going to quote me include the whole sentence. Yes I said Brock is going to when but thats my opinion. Franks was not winning any part of the original in fact he was being mauled. They are not playing judo they are not rollin in a jujitsu tournament they are doing the best they can to destroy their pone. I think Frank is awesome But you can be sure his game plan wont include waiting on his opponent to make a mistake in a title battle.

Peace

You want me to quote the whole sentence regarding Mir and Lesnar? Sure, here it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoz47

Lesnar is the real deal can he be beat yes is he a monster yes will he beat Frank yes.

There is nothing else in your post after that referring to Mir or Lesnar. So where did I misquote you? If I did, please explain so and I'll apologize.

As it was, as far as I can tell with my reading skills, the sentence didn't even attempt to explain the reasoning behind your view that Lesnar would win (which is completely possible.) As a result, it was open to a clean shot.

I respect your likeness for Lesnar (which I like as well), but some more effort in explaining your POV dude.

Yes, it isn't Judo or a grappling tournie. Wow, amazing, I now.

It's MMA, and as such Lesnar was winning until he landed several blows to the back of Mir's head. Unintentional blows of course, but they happen, they have been corroborated by video from different angles, and since it's MMA, the fight had to be stopped and re-started according to the rules of, guess what, MMA.

That's what MMA is. That's how fights are agreed upon. That's how fighters and referees operate under those rules. It's MMA.

This is how it works.

Lesnar knocks the shit out of Mir.
Lesnar goes for the kill and uses his wrestling skill to remain on top, landing more blows.
Mir, fazed, used the common tactic of rolling over to avoid getting hit in the head (since blows to the back of the head are illegal), take a breather and start hunting from a sub. This is no different from boxing where you can use the clinch to buy time, wear down the opponent (by putting your weight on him) and to get the ref to separate you to resume your plan of attack.
Unfortunately for Lesnar, he landed several accidental blows to the back of the head.
Big moustache Mazzagati warned him, but Lesnar, unfortunately again, could not hear him (can't blame him, he's too busy doing his job of finishing Mir.)
Mazzagati had no choice but to enforce the rules both Mir and Lesnar agreed to fight with by momentarily stopping them and getting them back on their feet. Had it been under PRIDE rules, the fight would have been stopped, with Lesnar getting a yellow card and the fight resume from the exact same position on the ground. This is no different from an accidental kick in the nuts.
The rest is history, more action, goes to the ground, leg lock.

As you said, it's not Judo or Jiu Jitsu, it's MMA, which I just explained in the analysis above this sentence.

So, if we are going to talk MMA, let's dissect this correctly:

As I've said before, Lesnar's good chance of winning (assuming he has improved his striking skills... ie. more footwork, he's too fucking linear) is by keeping the fight standing, and not be so eager to uber-squash Mir into a pancake. If he can do that, to Mir, then he has a good chance of winning. His fight with Couture shows he has improved his striking skills, but it's still debatable.

A sure win against Mir would be a validation of him as a MMA fighter, and not just as an uber-athlete with mad wrestling skills.

Mir is no Couture. Randy is great, but historically, he being a wrestler and never been known as a submission specialist in a MMA context, he has never done good against fellow wrestlers that have a substantial size advantage over him. Lesnar fits that bill, and stylistically, this was a bad match up against Couture. I wanted Couture to win, but based on his fighting history, that was unlikely against someone like Lesnar.

Mir is no Couture. No disrespect to either, but let's dissect and analyze their games objectively:

Mir won't have the same mad 'dirty boxing' and greco-roman clinch game as Couture, but he has superior striking to keep it standing.

Couture's game was using dirty boxing and the clinch to nail people down into GnP. Mir's striking game is to keep it up, wear down until he gets a KO or gets it to the ground for GnP or sub.

Couture did great when GnP'ing, but never did well when under a heavier wrestler. Mir is trained to deal with people on top of him.

So that's my out-of-my-ass analysis. If Lesnar has learned from recent past experience, refrain himself from going all spazz trying to GnP'ing and outbox Mir, then he can win. Otherwise, Mir will have it.

Mir has more experience. Ergo (and for the other reasons mentioned above) I lean towards him winning.

acoz47 · January 16th, 2009, 12:25 PM

Thats great now how do we create world peace brother?

**torofuerte** · January 16th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooshue

I think Lesnar's initial thought would have been to stand with mir, until he saw mir destroy noguera with his stand up round after round after round. I haven't seen that pinpoint standup accuracy without getting so much at smacked by an opponant in mma since the great Maurice Smith.
I've always liked mir, then again i always like the local hero's here in Las Vegas. I remember being so dissappointed when his conditioning coach told me he was done while training for his first comeback fight, wouldnt listen, wouldnt do cardio. He has overcome not only the physical aspect, but he was beat mentally for years and now appears to be right back in th game.

-- edited --

big mental fart, for a second I thought you were referencing not to Maurice Smith, but to Patrick Smith (when he turns Scott Morris into meconium in UFC 2).