Social expectations: pressure to get married

[sucher67]

I have personally experienced (and observed) that there is actually a lot of social pressure in American society for people in their early twenties to get married. This has some serious consequences.

I felt inclined to post this thread for 3 reasons:

1. I have felt that pressure on myself some years ago, and it almost led me to make some very bad deccisions

2. There are a lot of great comments coming out of this section of the forum, so I was wondering what kind of feedback and experience the people reading this forum may be able to provide

3. There is a thread where a member is concerned about post-college life. I think this social pressure factors into his concerns. I have started a new thread, since I think this warrants its own discussion. The post-college life thread is here: http://www.extremefitness.com/forum/t41760.html

There is a book called "The Started Marriage and the Future of Matrimony." This book explores the social pressure young people feel about marriage and its consequences. It isn't a manual, but a source of a lot of information to reflect on.

Does anyone have any thoughts and experiences on this? It isn't talked about very often, but getting married is a milestone, like finishing college, that young people are pushed toward.

[milky14]

Well, I have been with my fiancee for almost 5 years. We had mutual friends in college and only started hooking up/seeing each other toward the end of our Senior year. Upon graduation, I moved home (Mass.) and she to CT. I relocated about 8 months later and we moved in together. She expected a ring then. In the meantime, we moved apartments, broke up and got back together (it was a one week breakup that was the best thing that happened - made us both realize what we could be missing) and then bought a house (July 2005). We have lived together for 4 years now, and only until Xmas eve 2005 did I pop the question.

My reasons for the delay:
1. Wanted comfort in my career.
2. Wanted to pay cash for the ring (I hate debt and refuse to jump into it).
3. Wanted to live with her to see what she is like.
4. Vowed to myself not to get married before I am 27 (let alone engaged).
5. Wanted financial comfort.
6. Wanted to discuss our goals and make sure that we find common ground.
7. I didn't want to go through the hell of planning a wedding.
8. I feel that getting married later in life puts off having kids (which I don't want until my 30's (financial and maturity reasons).
9. Made sure I dated her longer than any other relationship (i.e. if you break up after a 3 year relationship, why get married after being with someone for 1 year? You know it can go sour at some point, or else you wouldn't spend 3 years with someone prior.).
10. Only time can tell if she is right for you.
11. One benfit is that she has a similar family background as I do (same income level, career expectations, etc.). This gives us many more similarities and I am not concerned about "gold digging".

Bottom line, I am happy with my decision (so far), and look forward to the future while enjoying the present.

Also, I think the best way to meet girls is through friends of friends. I know many people who are very happy that way. You are friends with someone for a reason, much like they have friends for a reason. All in all, you and your friend's friends have a natural common ground.

[pokertriad]

I think that every group of people(I'd say generation, but i hate the word, it could mean so many diffferent things), has gotten into things quicker. Years ago when my parents were young, no one was in 'school' at 3, maybe daycare, but not learning stuff like numbers. Maybe at 5 they said was the earliest. I however was in 'pre-school' at 3 learning things like short words(how to write, and read picture books). A 3 year old today may already know some of those things, how do I know. Another example is that I see younger and younger kids every year, holding hands, kissing, etc. Back when my mom and dad were in high school, no one was pregnant, but today at my high school of 4,000 kids, there is a birth every two months, if not every month. We look up and see role models, while they may be good ones, they still do the stuff that is normal for their age, like sex, having kids etc. If they are in their mid-twenties, that's fine, but I think that it must be rubbing off on younger brothers and sisters or just friends. Likewise, more and more younger people are getting married. It hasn't so much gotten younger for marriage, but more people are getting married around their years of 18-22 I think than ever before.
And yes, I think that people need to take things in a proper stride, althought you made a bad choice, you got yourself out of it and realized what you did. More and more people get themselves fucked up on drugs or whatever and they can't get out. Younger and younger with the drugs too, I hear tons of people in the halls, freshmen, talking about smoking. We need to spread these things out more(not drugs, they should be a never, but other stuff like marriage).

I have to go now, but I will join in the discussion more later.

Milky - congrats on the engagment. You made a better decision than a lot of people who just say, let's get married when they don't know the person very well. Usually marriage at that young an age, 18, 19 is more of an infatuation than love, I think. But congrats again.

[[b]L[i]N[g]]

I have to agree with Milky. I'm in a current situation where I ask myself similar questions. Here's my story...

23years old finishing up college and running my own business. I'm currently in a long distant relationship (I'll post full details in the 'long distance relationship' thread). I live in Southern California while she currently lives in the Philippines. I met my gf about 5 months ago. After two months getting to know her, we decided to get serious. I'm a picky guy so I just dont get involved with just anyone. Although we live half a world apart, we are more closer than ever before. We tell each other everything and even talk about getting married. We mutually decided that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. Some might think it might be to soon, but it's all about what you both want out of the relationship. I take relationships seriously. Thus being, my current gf has been my first serious relationship and I want her to be my last. Like everyone might say it takes time to actually realize it, but to others it can be sooner.

I haven't popped her the question yet, but she's expecting it. When? haha it'll be a surprise for her. If all goes well, possibly this upcoming New Year's Eve. In the upcoming months, we're gonna be spending time apart due to our work. I'll be busy saving up money so I could live in the Philippines this coming summer for about 3-5 months and spend some quality time with her. I'm also currently taking up a couple classes this semester. As for her, her dance group will be touring Japan from February until I go back to the Philippines. How will we manage? It's all about trust as they say, and communicating with each other. At times it will be hard, but that's what relationships come with. You go through your ups and downs, but at the end you learn from it.

It's not like were going to get married right away after the engagement. We've planned that maybe three years after we'll set the wedding date. During that time, a lot can happen. But being engaged will show my commitment to her. I'm really loyal and faithful to her, so she shouldn't have anything to worry about. We both share a motto, "whatever happens, happens", so don't quote me. Anything can happen, but most likely we'll end up together.

My only advice is to think things through, and let time determine your future. Don't rush things and don't be foolish. Once one of you doubts it won't work out, the relationship will surely fail. Your significant other will be the one you're with for the rest of your life. If you think divorce is a way out, don't bother getting married. You'll only put a dent in each other's life. It'll be a learning experience. Learn from others mistakes and not your own. Make a wise decision and not an immature one. BTW...I'm only telling my story to give some of you a view on differnt types of experiences. Everyone has their own unique story, and I have no problem sharing mines.

[milky14]

One thing I left out of my original post:

I don't think marriage should change anything in the relationship. For me, the only difference from pre-engagement to engagement is the need to plan a party for 200 people that give you gifts. I view marriage as the same thing we do know, I will just have a ring on my finger instead. I made sure that my life would not change drastically, because with change is where things can go wrong. I am completely comfortable with my fiancee, have always been faithful in all my relationships, and we are on a common ground where after we get married, nothing is different from our day to day lives now. We completely trust each other and view each other as the most important thing in our lives.

As for pressure:
Men - you hold the power, so don't let a woman pressure you. Telling her that every day you ask for it is another day that you won't get it.
Women - if you pressure a guy, they will resent you for the pressure or get rid of you. It is not your best play.

[pokertriad]

Milky - if you were just dating your fiancee and an old girlfriend that broke up with you, that you still like more than your current fiancee, comes back into your life. If you are married, you will most likely remain monogomus to your wife, but if you are just dating, you might go out with the old girlfriend, or even break up with your fiancee right?
I am not 'targeting' you as someone that would do this, but don't you think that there's a chance if anyone were engaged you'd break it off, if you knew there was someone that you like more out there prepared to settle down.

[biscuitman357]

In the old days, when everyone was a farmer and the world relied on swords to win wars, marriage was required to survive. You needed kids to help with the farm and you needed them to take care of you in your old age ( the grand social contract between parents and children since time immemorial) You needed a wife to bear you children and to manage the household, also so as not to piss off God or various incarnations of religion that trumped marriage in the old days.

Marriage is not a natural contract between people, its something society created, mostly to survive, later for simple social control. Consider this, you have a crappy job you hate, you earn ok money but you are going nowhere. But you got a wife, a mortgage and kids to support, so you suck it up. You are now a full fledged consistent middle income tax paying American. Theres nothing more abhorrent to the top %1 that control all the wealth than the idea of people who arent' saddled down. Single men and women do not often make the ideal employee to control.

In modern times, you don't need to get married to survive, but the social pressure from the media, religion and workplace still push the old era values.

In general, in my opinon, if a person does not

1) Raise you
2) constitute a blood relation
3) pay your bills

Then what they think really doesn't matter. If some stranger approves or disapproves of you, your bills don't get any higher or lower. So why bother with what the peanut gallery think. As a society, we are constantly bombarded with the idea that other peoples approval matters. As if strangers are entitled to feel that we should feel bad because we don't meet some ingrained ideal of what they think we should be. And usually means those strangers are the most pissed when people commit the sin of not being just like them.

Those strangers will not take you in if you are poor and homeless. If you are dying those strangers will not give you a kidney. No matter how kind you have been to them, none of those strangers will remember you if you hit the rocks one day. Those strangers are the kind of people that will only care about you if you can help them get ahead, you have money they way or you fill some gaping hole in their character.

My older brother taught me that the people that really matter in your life, you can probably count them on one hand. He also taught me to evaluate people this way - if they are the kind of person to be kinder or more civil to you just because you have money, but would be less so if you don't - then those are the kind of people who should be dead to you. Cannon fodder.

There are people in life who believe that their approval of you should actually mean something. But for the most part, those people dont matter, who cares what they think, who cares if they live or die.

That being said, I think everyone feels the pressure from all directions to get married. Its not easy, but you only get one life, let it be your choice and your choice alone because you are the only one who has to live with it.

[TXT]

Biscuitman: I'd like to repsond to some of your comments if I may. First off, marriage is not something society created. It has been around since the beginning of time. I refer you to Genesis2:18-24. As far as pissing off God if you don't get married, that may be something society created but His will for us may or may not be to get married. For this I refer you to 1Corinthians7. What you say about society today rings true. It's really messed up and, unfortunatily, is heading in the wrong direction. There are tremendous pressures from society today in many arenas, not just marriage, and it is our response to those pressures that can sometimes get in the way of the plan for our lives. Giving in to the pressures of a messed up society is only going to make you messed up because you're getting your guidance from the wrong source. I think one reason the divorce rate is so high (1 in 2 marriages on average) is that people are getting married for the wrong reasons that are due, in part, to the pressures of society. As far as evaluating or judging others, and we all do it, I'll refer you to Matthew7:1-5 and what is written can be a hard thing to do. Your older brother is wise in his words about people that really matter, true friends. Proverb17:17, 18:24 and 27:6 to name a few, provide illustrations of this. As far as the other people you referenced and how they should be treated, I refer you to Romans12:14-21. All these verses present a pretty tall order of our actions and responses but life is not easy and the ongoing pressures of society only make it more difficult. I liked what you had to say because it got me thinking on a few things as I hope it got others to do so. I hope what I've said does the same thing.

[mrrockhard123]

Originally Posted by biscuitman357

Those strangers will not take you in if you are poor and homeless. If you are dying those strangers will not give you a kidney. No matter how kind you have been to them, none of those strangers will remember you if you hit the rocks one day. Those strangers are the kind of people that will only care about you if you can help them get ahead, you have money they way or you fill some gaping hole in their character.

This simply is not true. People donate blood to help others. There are organ donors out there that reach out to perfect strangers. If everyone held the view that biscuitman does, the world would have perished long ago.

[milky14]

Originally Posted by pokertriad

Milky - if you were just dating your fiancee and an old girlfriend that broke up with you, that you still like more than your current fiancee, comes back into your life. If you are married, you will most likely remain monogomus to your wife, but if you are just dating, you might go out with the old girlfriend, or even break up with your fiancee right?
I am not 'targeting' you as someone that would do this, but don't you think that there's a chance if anyone were engaged you'd break it off, if you knew there was someone that you like more out there prepared to settle down.

If this is how you feel, you are obviously not ready to settle down.

If my car is running fine, I like it, and I am happy with everything about it, I don't go out and buy a new car. If I am not "looking to buy", it is impossible to sell me a car. Same thing with women. If you are married, and "not looking to buy", no woman should be able to sell you. If they can, then you either didn't marry the right person, have no morals, don't respect your wife/fiancee/girlfriend, or are weak (or any combination thereof). If that is the case, stay single (for the sake of women, your potential kids, your bank account, and your sanity).

[pokertriad]

Milky - I don't know if it was how I wrote it, or how you read it. But first, I am 14, so ovbiously not ready to settle down. I myself would probably never cheat on a girlfriend, fiancee, or wife. What I was saying was that what if you were in love with a girl, and somehow you got split from her. Later in life, you find a woman who you think you are in as deep a love as the first woman. During your relationship, you find your old girlfriend by chance, and realize that you love her more, do you leave the other woman? If I knew I were truely in love, and that the first woman was ready to settle down, yes. I did not mean if I were married, that would not happen, unless my wife were cheating on me, or she had mentioned not being happy with our relationship.
I always like to consider all my options, so I would spend some time with the first woman again, to find out how much she changed. I wouldn't necessarily leave my girlfriend, but there would be a mental debate.
If I respect my current girlfriend, but I respect woman one more, what do I do then?

[milky14]

Pokertriad, have you seen the movie "Swingers"? On top of being a good movie, it sort of answers your question. The main character was torn over an ex, then found a new girlfriend, and only then did the one he used to love and date come back. Well, you can guess how it ended - he ditched the old flame for the new flame.

I guess the whole hypothetical would deal with your age, thier ages, and everyone's goals in terms of the future of their life and relationships. I hope you and anyone you know never have to weigh that kind of decision. Neither woman would want to share you with the other, so you would either be lying to both of them, or telling them the truth and risk losing both of them.

When I have had a relationship end, it is normally for a reason. When I talk to the ex, I remember that there was a reason we broke up, and that is the same reason why we wouldn't get back together. However, that is with more serious relationships that went on in my 20s. If you have a specific situation, I would be happy to offer my advice. In the meantime, enjoy your teens up through college, because it is the most fun you can have before you really require maturity.

[pokertriad]

Are you saying high school is the most fun I can have? I hate high school. Not to sound like a pretentious prick, but I am, in most cases, very mature for my age. I hang out with people between 18 and 22 more than people from my high school, I find them to be very imature. I also attend college, which is much better than high school.

[milky14]

I personally enjoyed college much more. The only downside is that I didn't get to play sports after school every day (like I did in high school). I did play baseball for a year, but it was a job, not fun. As for the abundance of women and drinking, there was nothing more a young man could've wanted.

[Justsomedude]

From personal experience, I would say that society puts alot of pressure on people to get married. From movies, to TV, to books, it's all about how you should find some significant other, get married and live happily ever after. I spoke about personal experience so here's the story.

I am 27 years old and have a younger sister who is 25. While growing up, I was (and still am to some degree) shy and never really asked girls out on dates for fear of rejection. I know alot may say that 'it's ok man, I am/was too. You just have to suck it up', but my fear is to such a degree that even thinking about it freezes me up (I had a REALLY bad experience one time. Some might think this clinical, but whatever....). Anyways, because of this I have not had any dates, either during school or post-schooling. Yes you read that right, A-N-Y. On the other side of the coin, my sister was very promiscous to the point where there were 'issues' (and I'll leave that like that). She is now married and has 3 kids ages 5, 2 and a month old. Now, for some strange reason, I'm being looked upon like some odd piece of art by family members. Questions like; Do you have a girlfriend? When are you going to get married? When's it your turn? My lack of dating is to the point where my parents think I might be gay ('cause I've never brought anybody home to meet them, so I must be dating guys behind their back ). Also, since my sister had gotten pregnant with the first child, the attitude towards her has shifted from one of disdain (because she was the troublemaker. Didn't graduate high school, couldn't keep her legs closed, the smoking thing, etc...) to one of loving acceptance, like she's finally doing something with her life (i.e like she discovered the cure to cancer or something ).

Anyways, all that to say that now I'm the one who's not 'measuring' up, because I'm single and have no plans to be with someone in the near future (if at all). I had school friends that I would hang out with all the time. Then, they got girlfriends and I haven't seen hide nor hair for the last 8 years. It's like you need to do what everybody else is doing in order to be accepted, otherwise you're ostricized.

In reply to TXT; I don't want to sound rude, but marriage is a contract made up by man. Look at the vows, 'Take this man/woman while forasking all others' blah, blah, blah. In the old days (and it happens still in some countries) this would come along with a dowery from the bride's family, essentially buying the groom's (or groom's family) favour. If for any reason the marriage didn't work (i.e breaking the contract) the groom would have to repay the dowery. You don't need to be married in order to spend the rest of your life with someone. Just like you don't have to have a girlfriend/boyfriend in order to 'be' somebody.

-JSD

[TXT]

JSD,
I don't mean to sound rude either but where are you getting your information and did you bother to read my references? Can you provide me some references so I may better understand your point of view?

[Justsomedude]

Hope you don't take this the wrong way TXT (because everyone has their own opinion), but I can't take your bible references to heart. Why? Because I don't put much stock in religion (any religion, to make it perfectly clear.). To me, any religious quotations or imagery used to back any argument is just a failed attempt to justify one's belief based on propaganda from an established form of control because some can't think for themselves and need to be told what to do (again my opinion. It's the way I see things). As for the marriage part, look under this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage and you'll find my points to the 'dowry' and 'marriage is a contract' references, among other things.

-JSD

[TXT]

JSD
I certainly don't take that the wrong way. That's what is great about this forum. You get a wide variety of views and opinions from people all over the world. I briefly read through your reference and I did run across your points along with some of mine as well so I guess we can agree to disagree. As for you not putting much stock in religion of any kind, to be honest with you I don't either because the term religion, in my opinion, refers to rituals and acts that are done in order to achieve a higher or more divine sense of presence if that makes sense. And that's not me. My faith provides me with guidance in all situations and it is the choices I make based on that guidance that determines the outcome of my life. It is my choice to accept or reject that guidance. I got a little off thread topic there and my apologies to everyone. I've enjoyed this JSD and I hope we can spar again on another subject. Take care.

[Justsomedude]

[sucher67]

Biscuitman: your pragmaticism is always appreciated.