Am I done?

[napoleon]

Ok well here's the story. About 3 years ago a friend of mine was going out with this one girl, I always thought she was pretty cute and a great personality. He ended up cheating on her and dumped her in a bad way, they went out for about 5 years, needless to say she was hit really hard with it all. I didnt really talk to her or see her since that all happened.

Well about a year ago I ended up meeting her at my school where her soon to be ex boyfriend was going, we went out to lunch and overall had a great time, she left that dude and started hanging out with me. We were kinda together through the summer and had a fantastic time, couldnt have asked to be around a better person, as the days went on I felt more and more into her, initially it was so so but around 6 months I was really digging her. Well the question came up one day on how I felt about kids, and me being the dumbass that I am said hell no I hate kids. Well she was kinda startin to freak cus she thinks she is getting too old and needs to line this stuff up asap.

To top it off I never really gave her a definite about what me and here were, I didnt say 'love' to her or anything, introduced her to friends as 'my friend' and basically other good screwups like that. I would like to think she knew I really cared about her but I have a hard time putting it into words. My experience with relationships in my family has kinda ruined me, definately no love between my parents in my house growing up.

Around christmas I was planning on having her over for dinner with the family, a very big step for me considering I never brough a girl around my family. She couldnt make it to her own families dinner let alone mine because of work and I understood that. I ended up spending a lot of money on her present and gave it to her a few days after x-mas, she took it with a smile and I got a peck on the cheek for the effort.

A few weeks later I wanted to talk to her about the kids thing to try and work something out she said she wanted her space and that was pretty much the end of it. I felt pretty shitty and have ever since.

Well a few weeks ago I find out she already had a man lined up, a guy she use to hang out with for a few years now, what she called her best man friend. I never worried about it cus I thought he was just a friend, Im good friends with other girls so I know it happens.

I never really had a girlfriend before I met her, she was my first ( in more things than one), so needless to say Im pretty damn devistated by this. I dont know what to do here, is this just a bad case of virginitis Im dealign with here or did/do I really love her? I think I do.

Her friend told me she loved me but wanted to hear it from me, I have a very hard time throwing that word around cus I just never did, I wanted to tell her and came close a few times but just couldnt do it.

I met her when I was out of school for a few months and I didnt want to tell her anything like that because I was thinking once I got out of school and got my life settled in I would have girls left and right, and wanted to leave myself an exit to play around and experience life. Well when she told me she wanted her space I went out and dated around, never really found a girl that could compare to her, no luck in the bar scene and overally its not what I was expecting.

I guess my question is did I scew myself permanently? if this were some other guy she met I think I might have a chance to tell her how I really feel and maybe she would understand I have limited experience with relationships and POSSIBLY give me a second chance. But Im dealing with a guy that has been her good/best friend for years, and from what her friends have said she is happy and he treats her good.

I know the whole plenty of fish in the sea thing, but I waited 27 years to be with a girl, found one and let her go, as far as emotions go i cant say Ive felt any worse in my life.

[SAINT_X]

...her a letter. And let the chips fall where they may. But regardless of the outcome with this relationship, no, YOU are not permanently screwed. You keep breathing, keep putting one foot in front of the other, keep waking up, and keep smiling...life will find a way to work out for you.

[wildstang]

as saint x said write a letter or ask the girl if you 2 can have a talk in person without no interuptions, explaining to her you have some important info she should hear. if you cant handle the face to face method wich is better in my opinion the letter will suffice. your gonna have to break down and put all the cards on the table and let her know how you really feel and explain to her why you have a hard time even telling of your parents relationship if need be. but without telling her nothing yes you are gonna lose her. if she has any feelings for you what you say will make a difference.

[napoleon]

Yea life does have a way of working out, just sometimes its pretty damn hard to wait for it to find its way.

The letter is a good idea, the things I can say when I write and when I speak are two way different things. Thanks

[torofuerte]

I know the whole plenty of fish in the sea thing,

Yes, and it is true. Live by that rule to avoid wasting your emotional energy on dead ends.

but

But nothing... see above.

I waited 27 years to be with a girl

You wasted 27 years and what's done is done. From this point on, either you stop wasting time or you keep adding wasting time until it's not 27 years, but 28, then 29, then 30 and then...

And how old are you anyways?

found one and let her go

That's life. People come and go. You have to learn to deal with it in a manner that's constructive and self-satisfying.

as far as emotions go i cant say Ive felt any worse in my life.

Because you are letting those feelings overwhelm you FOR NO VALID REASON.

Let me put it this way: you question is 'Am I done?' and the answer is 'no'. You were never even 'in' or 'be relevant in her life' to begin with. You were never anything. Period.

You can either move on and see what's out there for you, or you can stand still in that corner where you are now, feeling sorry about yourself and wondering if you are done (even though you were never 'in' to begin with) and talking about how you let a girl go (even though you never trully had the one you are referencing here.)

Choice is yours bro.

[napoleon]

I understand what you're saying and I have no choice but to eventually move on, this isnt the end of the world but for the time being it will sure feel like it, Im just not use to feeling like this Ive been alone for so many years and it hasnt bothered me much. My whole thing is though I dont want to throw away something with a great girl because of something stupid that I said, or didnt say. Its not like I cheated on her, I just didnt tell her what she was to me. I do feel I was/am relavent in her life, she mentioned no matter what happens she wants me around. Its nice to think that way but its just not do-able, Im not gonna be around and watch her enjoy life with some dude that sniped my woman.

I want to give it one last shot, I just dont know how to go about doing it, Im gonna start with my letter and try to say everything I feel for her, if she's so into this other dude after 2 months and being friends for all those years then so be it nothing I can do is gonna change that. I was just wondering if my odds are slim to nil because this guy has been a friend of her for years, I was hoping to find someone here with a similar experience. I dont know maybe he can slink his way back into the black hole called 'best friend' Im doubting it but what else can I do.

Im going to be 29

[SAINT_X]

...spot. Not exactly the same, of course, but relatively close.
Go with the letter... and don't push for instant reaction. Sometimes it's best to just plant the seed in her mind and let it germinate. Maybe something you write touches her but you still need an event or two to conspire in your favor. All you can do is be cool. Possibly the best advice I ever got was this: when a girl tells you she needs space - you become a spaceman, you be in outer space as far as she is concerned. She knows how to reach you if need be. If she decides you're it... not being readily accessible won't hurt your cause at all.

[joey9]

Sometimes the most valuable lessons in life are also the most painful ones.

Being able to tell someone you love them is something you'll be glad you did when you're on your deathbed looking back at your life, and at that point this incident might not seem like as much of a big deal as it does now.

Having children is a big deal. Is that one of the questions she would want to hear about from you?

Sometimes people are ready for different things, and as painful as it is, the best thing to do is to separate and move in new directions with an open mind and without clinging to the past.

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by SAINT_X

...spot. Not exactly the same, of course, but relatively close.
Go with the letter... and don't push for instant reaction. Sometimes it's best to just plant the seed in her mind and let it germinate. Maybe something you write touches her but you still need an event or two to conspire in your favor. All you can do is be cool. Possibly the best advice I ever got was this: when a girl tells you she needs space - you become a spaceman, you be in outer space as far as she is concerned. She knows how to reach you if need be. If she decides you're it... not being readily accessible won't hurt your cause at all.

Yea I plan on doing that, its just kinda tough now because how she was saying she still wants me in her life. I talk to her on the phone occasion, see her once in a while and a text message here and there, its getting tougher and tougher doing this knowing that dude is with her.

Im gonna have to just lay it down in the letter then let her go, as much as it hurts I think the distance will do me good in the long run.

I dont want to be stupid about this and pressure her and possibly drive her farther away from me.

[inthecircle]

Originally Posted by joey9

Sometimes the most valuable lessons in life are also the most painful ones.

That is one of the truest statements.

If and when you write the letter....take your time...think through your feelings. Make sure you put down on that paper the truth, put down how you really feel, not how you think she wants you to feel. Once you put it all out there you've done your part. You put it in her court. I would not put everything in your life on hold waiting for her response.

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by joey9

Sometimes the most valuable lessons in life are also the most painful ones.

Being able to tell someone you love them is something you'll be glad you did when you're on your deathbed looking back at your life, and at that point this incident might not seem like as much of a big deal as it does now.

Having children is a big deal. Is that one of the questions she would want to hear about from you?

Sometimes people are ready for different things, and as painful as it is, the best thing to do is to separate and move in new directions with an open mind and without clinging to the past.

I am going to tell her I love her, I dont want it to be something she has to wonder about.

When I was talking to her just before she told me she needs her space I said lets talk about the kids thing, that when I got the 'space' line. I never really thought I wanted to have kids but then again I never wanted to get married and after being with her that changed so who am I say how my mind will change with having kids.

At the time she just wanted to hear from me that I was commited to her, and I screwed that up, and the fact that I said I dont like(hate) kids. Im really stubborn on things and at the time that was one of those things I wouldnt budge on, but thinking back if I ever plan on being happy with a girl its probally something im going to have to do.

The direction we are/were is pretty different. She's been out of school for about 2 years now, I was out for about 6 months I wanted to see how much life had to offer, so at the time things didnt line up with where we were in life. I went out and drank myself stupid and hit on girls and Im not really as happy doing that as I was being with her.

[Carnitas]

In all honesty, I'm sure the letter would be a great idea. But I think telling her you love her in person, seeing as you haven't told her this before, would have a greater affect than in a letter. That's just from my experience. I was nervous as hell before I told my gf, and I asked a bunch of girls the best way to do it. Out of the 8 that I asked, they all said in person. Now this situation is of course different than mine, but I do really think if you get to see her, hold her hand and really let her know that you love her with all your heart, it might mean more than in a letter. That is of course just my opinion, and I'm sure whichever way you decide, will result in good things.

[sexy69]

Not to kick when your down, but is there a chance you only feel this way because you lost her? I beleive that if you truley did love her at the time you were with her you have put all your fears aside and told her.

Don't change what you beleive in (referring to not having kids) just becasue the woman your seeing wants them. Keep ture to what you want a believe in and the right woman will want the same things.

[Carnitas]

I think he said he just never thought about it and so his initial response was, fuck that I'm still young so no I don't want kids. That would be most guy's answer right off the bat. But once you think about it, and are financially ready, then things change.

[torofuerte]

You know what, I'm going to be very blunt. Perhaps it will be wise if you report me to the mods or if you just skip my post completely.

Originally Posted by napoleon

I understand what you're saying and I have no choice but to eventually move on, this isnt the end of the world but for the time being it will sure feel like it

That's life's way of saying 'hi, time to make your acquaintance.'

Originally Posted by napoleon

Im just not use to feeling like this

So? There are men and women out there in this feeling worse as they look in garbage cans for something to bring to the table for their kids.

Think about that next time you feel like feeling sorry about yourself for being alone on a Friday night.

Originally Posted by napoleon

Ive been alone for so many years and it hasnt bothered me much.

We have all been there and done that.

A lot of times we are alone or with the wrong person because of our decisions, our own incompetence in dealing with things and wasting emotional energy in things that were not that important.

Originally Posted by napoleon

My whole thing is though I dont want to throw away something with a great girl because of something stupid that I said, or didnt say. Its not like I cheated on her, I just didnt tell her what she was to me.

Who cares? She's not for you. Move on. Find another one, a nice one or a trashy one, go to the gym and work out until you bleed or get a lap dance or hire a hooker to ride your brains out.

Whatever it takes to move on. Move on. Which leads me to the next.

Originally Posted by napoleon

I do feel I was/am relavent in her life, she mentioned no matter what happens she wants me around.

It may come as a shock to you, but I have to reveal a very profound, earth shaking truth. Brace yourself as I yap my maw and speak this truth:

Just because she wants you around that doesn't mean you are relevant to her.

Shit, I want toilet paper around me. I want to wipe myself nice and easy, but if all of the sudden civilization comes to an end and there is no more toilet paper, screw that, I'll use a corn cob, a plantain leave, hell a fucking dead rabbit if I need to to wipe myself.

Toilet paper is nice to have around, but it's not relevant.

Same with you. You are as relevant to her as a doormat. Nice to have to put the feet on, nice and comfy, but irrelevant and replaceable.

You are being her doormat. Of course she wants you around. She'll come to you to complain and cry, and once she feels good, she'll kiss you in the cheek because you are such a fucking sport. Yay to you!!!

And then she goes back to whoever is riding her wild. And then she'll come back to you, to talk, to feel comfy, to use you as a doormat, and then she goes back to the one that's slapping her ass, and then she'll come back to you, the doormat... and then to him, da'man... and then to you, the doormat... and then to him, da'man...

... and so on and so on for all of eternity until one day you finally turn to dust and die or until you reach your hand between your pants, to feel you have a pair of balls and grow the hell up and move on, whichever happens first.

Your choice.

Originally Posted by napoleon

Its nice to think that way but its just not do-able, Im not gonna be around and watch her enjoy life with some dude that sniped my woman.

You are doing that now.

Originally Posted by napoleon

I want to give it one last shot,

Because you want to be a doormat.

Originally Posted by napoleon

I just dont know how to go about doing it

You can start like this:

Hi, I'm your doormat, and I will be eternally yours. I like to suck up to you and no matter what happens, I will be here for you. You can fuck that guy and any other guy until the cows come home, but I'll be here for you, to hear you cry and give you comfort until you feel good enough about you to go and jump onto another man's lap.

I'll be here for you. Please like me.

Don't ever bother trying to come up with a letter of your own. Just copy and paste this, because, no matter what you write or say to her, I can fucking guarantee you that this is how you'll sound like to her.

Mark my words.

Originally Posted by napoleon

Im gonna start with my letter and try to say everything I feel for her, if she's so into this other dude after 2 months and being friends for all those years then so be it nothing I can do is gonna change that.

You cannot change anything right now man. You did'nt have anything to change to begin with!!!!

Originally Posted by napoleon

I was just wondering if my odds are slim to nil because this guy has been a friend of her for years, I was hoping to find someone here with a similar experience.

You never had a chance. I'm tellign you man, all men have been there and done that. Don't even think about this anymore and move on. We are talking from experience.

Originally Posted by napoleon

I dont know maybe he can slink his way back into the black hole called 'best friend' Im doubting it but what else can I do.

You can stop thinking about her, about the whole situation and regain some self respect. The 'Fish tank is large' thing, remember?

Originally Posted by napoleon

Im going to be 29

So what business do you have in saying 'awww, I wasted 27 years of my life, yap yap yap'????

Duuuuuude, grow the hell up!!!! I'm sorry, maybe I should not say anything as I'm not a relationship expert, but from one man to another, by the fucking Balls of Odin and The Cheese From The Holy Cow, forget. about. that. shit!!!

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by Carnitas

I think he said he just never thought about it and so his initial response was, fuck that I'm still young so no I don't want kids. That would be most guy's answer right off the bat. But once you think about it, and are financially ready, then things change.

Dude, you called it 100%

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by torofuerte

You know what, I'm going to be very blunt. Perhaps it will be wise if you report me to the mods or if you just skip my post completely.

That's life's way of saying 'hi, time to make your acquaintance.'

So? There are men and women out there in this feeling worse as they look in garbage cans for something to bring to the table for their kids.

Think about that next time you feel like feeling sorry about yourself for being alone on a Friday night.

We have all been there and done that.

A lot of times we are alone or with the wrong person because of our decisions, our own incompetence in dealing with things and wasting emotional energy in things that were not that important.

Who cares? She's not for you. Move on. Find another one, a nice one or a trashy one, go to the gym and work out until you bleed or get a lap dance or hire a hooker to ride your brains out.

Whatever it takes to move on. Move on. Which leads me to the next.


It may come as a shock to you, but I have to reveal a very profound, earth shaking truth. Brace yourself as I yap my maw and speak this truth:

Just because she wants you around that doesn't mean you are relevant to her.

Shit, I want toilet paper around me. I want to wipe myself nice and easy, but if all of the sudden civilization comes to an end and there is no more toilet paper, screw that, I'll use a corn cob, a plantain leave, hell a fucking dead rabbit if I need to to wipe myself.

Toilet paper is nice to have around, but it's not relevant.

Same with you. You are as relevant to her as a doormat. Nice to have to put the feet on, nice and comfy, but irrelevant and replaceable.

You are being her doormat. Of course she wants you around. She'll come to you to complain and cry, and once she feels good, she'll kiss you in the cheek because you are such a fucking sport. Yay to you!!!

And then she goes back to whoever is riding her wild. And then she'll come back to you, to talk, to feel comfy, to use you as a doormat, and then she goes back to the one that's slapping her ass, and then she'll come back to you, the doormat... and then to him, da'man... and then to you, the doormat... and then to him, da'man...

... and so on and so on for all of eternity until one day you finally turn to dust and die or until you reach your hand between your pants, to feel you have a pair of balls and grow the hell up and move on, whichever happens first.

Your choice.

You are doing that now.



Because you want to be a doormat.



You can start like this:

Hi, I'm your doormat, and I will be eternally yours. I like to suck up to you and no matter what happens, I will be here for you. You can fuck that guy and any other guy until the cows come home, but I'll be here for you, to hear you cry and give you comfort until you feel good enough about you to go and jump onto another man's lap.

I'll be here for you. Please like me.

Don't ever bother trying to come up with a letter of your own. Just copy and paste this, because, no matter what you write or say to her, I can fucking guarantee you that this is how you'll sound like to her.

Mark my words.




You cannot change anything right now man. You did'nt have anything to change to begin with!!!!



You never had a chance. I'm tellign you man, all men have been there and done that. Don't even think about this anymore and move on. We are talking from experience.



You can stop thinking about her, about the whole situation and regain some self respect. The 'Fish tank is large' thing, remember?

So what business do you have in saying 'awww, I wasted 27 years of my life, yap yap yap'????

Duuuuuude, grow the hell up!!!! I'm sorry, maybe I should not say anything as I'm not a relationship expert, but from one man to another, by the fucking Balls of Odin and The Cheese From The Holy Cow, forget. about. that. shit!!!

Why would I report you to the mods? I am after all on a free public website asking for advice, anything goes. I respect your views, Im the same way but I really been trying to work on a more optimistic view on life, it takes time.


Granted your pretty damn bold about what you say but most of it isnt really b.s. I wouldnt say I was a doormat but I guess outside looking in it pretty much looks like that and probally is, but I just think the world of this girl.

The whole looking for food comment in relation to my situation was kinda rough, but whatever. I know this isnt the end of the world, it just feels like that for now. feelings suck, but the lower you feel the better 'good' feels when it comes around.

I spent most of my time in school and never really had a social life, that and some pretty rough acne,a and a subpar physique gave me a confidence level of nil, but im working on it all.

Im not tryin to cry like a b1tch about this I just found that asking around to people with experience can only help me make a decision, not like I cant make a choice by myself its just nice to see/hear different angles to a problem, the beauty of the internet.

She will probally go back to the guy riding her like you said, and ill feel crappy about it but atleast I can know that I tagged it before him.

I am going to write a letter to her, not complain or wine or beg for forgiveness I just want to say what I meant to say before, its going to get worse before it gets better but atleast Ill know that I tried.

[tooncesthecat]

I just want to expand on a point already made. If she wants kids, and it sounds like she wants them sooner rather than later, then this is what you are signing up for. Now I get the sense you aren't quite ready to settle down based on what you have described. Having kids should be out of the question if you are not married. That's just my opinion. So essentially, if you get involved with her, there's a few ways it could go...

1. You date for a while and she pushes for kids again. You have them out of wedlock and begin a life of child support and arguments over visitation.

2. You date for a while and she pushes for kids again. You stay true to your true feelings and say "no way, not right now" and she dumps you again.

3. You date for a while and then go for broke - getting married and having kids. You've just gone from never really dating someone to jumping into the volcano head first! Marriage is plenty of responsibility and kids multiple that exponentially!

Writing a letter is a good idea, but be careful how you word it. You have to be honest with her up front if you're serious about getting involved with her. And you'll have to pay close attention to WHAT SHE WANTS! You two need to be on the same page with this because is sounds like she's in a stage of her life where she is expecting quite a commitment. Are you on the same page????

[pliny_2001]

OK - here's a story that may be germane to your thought process.

Undergrad, dating a great girl. It was young love, but still love. The problem? She was "the marrying kind." Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but I didn't really have any plans to get engaged at graduation, and married at 23. I wanted grad school and a killer job more than "early" marriage. Nothing wrong with that either.

There were a few fights back and forth, but we were each smart enough to realize that the other person - while we loved them - wasn't what we were ultimately looking for. So we broke up, got drunk, got back together, and repeated that cycle for a couple months. Eventually it took.

She's a great girl, married what seems to be a decent enough guy, lives in Chicago, and by now should have at least one kid, though probably more. It's the life she wanted. It wasn't the life I want at that age - her clock was just set about 7-8 years in front of mine. I went and dated a series of often nice girls, many of whom I didn't particularly love, but I always liked them. I can say that it would be great to have been in love, have a great family, etc right now, but the fact is that I wouldn't have wanted to be in that situation over the last few years, so I'm literally unable to complain (not that I really even want to).

It's tough to end something - tougher when there isn't a "good" reason. But sometimes they do. You're dealing with mistaken emotions that you would have learned about if you'd just dated more, but that's under the bridge. It's a lesson learned, and move on.

End of story, I'm afraid. It's virginitis, and it's time to man up.