Flips Turns, ouch!

**whatabetty** · January 31st, 2006, 06:02 PM

I'm learning to flip turn now during my swim and having a difficult time getting the rhythim down. My troubles are water up the nose and getting too close and hitting my hiny on the wall. I'm open to any suggestions to all might have.

**FitnessPhotos** · January 31st, 2006, 06:58 PM

I've been wearing those clips that go over the nose to keep water out of my nose; seems to work okay for me. I won't be trying flip turns for a while, but water up the nose is something I can talk about, lol!

jcs777 · February 1st, 2006, 09:55 AM

The trick to keeping water out of your nose is to take a good breath before you flip and expel all that water out as you flip. The right amount of air pressure going out should keep the water from coming in. As for hitting your hiney... most pools have a nice little "T" at the end of the lane. With practice you should learn what your position is, relative to that "T", for a perfect turn. The following link has some decent pics/video/instruction.
http://swimming.about.com/gi/dynamic...Fflipturn.html
Good Luck!

**engr** · February 1st, 2006, 10:56 AM

Ah yes, flip turns can be a real pain in the...neck, or in your case, heiny. Anywho that video and page is pretty good. As far as keeping the water out of your nose, jcs777 has good advice. Keep at it, a good flip turn can shave time off of pool swims.

Here are a few more links with info from USA Swimming

USA Swimming flip turn mechanics

Faster Flip Turns

You can also go here and type flip turn into the search and get a bunch of tips.

Good luck,
Engr

Maaku · February 1st, 2006, 12:56 PM

I remember a lot of practice and a lot of water-up-the-nose when I first started my flip turns. Both engr and jcs777 posted some great links with good information. In particular, I'd recommend doing the Flip Drill (http://www.svl.ch/learntheturn.html) from jcs777's link. I did something similar to this when I was learning and it helped me to get the flip down so that I wasn't spending an eternity underwater during my turns, which can lead to water up the nose. It can also help you master expelling water from your nose during your turn.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

**mudrock** · February 2nd, 2006, 10:40 PM

As a competative swimmer of 15 years and a 10-year USA Swimming certified coach, I may be of service.

First, let's deal with the water up the nose. As you enter your turn and begin your flip, exhale through your nose. If you are ever to get serious about using swimming for fitness, this is the way to go.

Let me walk you through a flip-turn.

1. As you approach the wall, look for the "T" (at the end of the line on the bottom of the pool)
2. Count your strokes from when your head passes above the "T" until you grab onto the wall.
3. Repeat the process a couple of times to make sure your stroke count is consistent.
4. This time, you will start your flip when you are 1 stroke away from the wall.
5. At this point, make sure that both hands are at your side.
6. Here, you will do two things simultaineously.
a. Use your hands to "push" water toward your head and behind it.
b. Flex your stomach like you're doing a sit-up.
7. If you did it right, your feet should have gone through the air and you are on your back, with your arms above your head.
8. It's simple from here on. Simply overlap your hands and straighten them into a streamline position. Your head should be squeezed between your biceps.
9. Extend your legs and push off the wall. You should push off on your back (still under water) and rotate on to your stomach as you kick away from the wall.
10. Take 2 to 3 strokes after your turn before you breathe (If you breathe right away, you lose the benefit of the streamline and push. It's like hitting a wall).

You may need to break this down step-by-step and practice it extensively for a while. It is not a natural motion and requires much practice.

Have fun and good luck!

When you master the flip-turn, you'll be surprised how your yardage will increase!!

mr-bull · February 3rd, 2006, 04:38 PM

Mudrock has posted a very good step by step before me, this is sound advice and exactly the way i was coached. If i may id like to make one suggestion as a variation to step five.

This may not work for everyone as it can turn you a bit fast and you may get disoriented and shoot off in the wrong direction. It also has a high chance of slamming your face into the wall at high speed as you attack the wall. But it works for me.....

first before anything learn how many strokes it takes to get from the flags or the 'T' to the edge of the pool this is the most importaint part of the turn it will stop you from hitting yourself or stopping dead when your too far away from the wall and attempt push off on nothing.

Dont slow down as you approach the wall but on your last stroke (one off the amount it takes to get to the wall) take your arm down further and faster than u usually would (if your sprinting this wont be a problem).
Use your momentum and the waight of your arm to bring the rest of your body up and over following the direction of your hand and tuck up. push out as you hit the wall, (your aiming for your bent legs to only have an inch or two beetween them and the wall so you can effectivly push off it as apposed to kicking off it, get this distance right and you will come off a lot faster and under a lot more control.
try and get your body a straight as you can as you come off, try and turn underwater so that you right yourself just before you brake the serfice (please excuse my spelling

As your turning butterfly kick as hard as you can (think dolphin) and only take your first stroke only when you feel your speed dropping.

allways breath out your nose when turning, and try to get it all to flow, the more fluid your movement and relaxed you are while swimming the faster ull become over greater distances.

Sorry that was a bit drawn out, theres a very good reason im not a coach!!!

**whatabetty** · February 4th, 2006, 08:04 AM

Lots of great info! I can't to try it out on Tuesday. Thank you

fitcore · February 4th, 2006, 10:36 PM

I taught myself to flip-turn a couple of years back doing this...
Instead of trying to teach yourself to flip while approaching the wall, just try standing in the middle of the lane, and just flipping yourself over. This was a great way to acclimate myself to the feeling of being upside down, and to find my bearings while doing so.
Just stand with arms in the water at your side and palms forward, and in one motion, put your head into the water while 'pulling' with your arms, do a flip and end up standing again.

I did this for about a half hour until I felt comfortable with it. Then started taking a couple strokes, and trying to do the same.
Pretty soon, you'll feel very compfortable flipping and pushing off the wall.

One other thing...don't the flip-turn. I actually started doing a slow flip intentionally getting familiar with what it feels like to be upside-down. Once you are trying to flip at the wall, take your time during the flip and don't panic or try to rush.
Keep it up, You'll get it.

dryland · February 6th, 2006, 11:47 PM

Check out www.fliptrain.com It's the first product ever designed to help teach swimmers how to perform the basic mechanics of the flip turn. You may have to convince whoever does the purchasing for your swimming facility to pursue this product, but it will be well worth it . . . trust me . . . I invented it!

jcs777 · February 7th, 2006, 10:11 AM

seriously dryland? you invented that thing?

1st post ever as a shameless product plug notwithstanding, i'm impressed. kinda neat little deal. what's your profit margin? ok, you don't have to answer that...

dryland · February 7th, 2006, 02:59 PM

It's a good product. One that's been long overdue in the industry. We try to talk people through so many skills, when more effective tactile opportunities to learn are in short supply.

Whatabetty, although the step by step instuctions provided above by mudrock are good . . . the fact is, you're going to struggle with this unless you find or hire an experienced coach in your area who can provide the real time feedback (verbal and/or hands-on) you need to get it right. People rarely become accomplished at skills like the flip turn, or swimming in general for that matter, by reading "how to" commentaries (even when they are written with the utmost accuracy). That's why I would suggest finding a coach who can actually work with you at your local pool, or better yet . . . plug into a group program that an experienced coach is offering. FlipTrain is an effective tool that not only helps swimmers learn the turn but it also helps coaches teach it. It leverages everyone's time. But, it's not something an individual would purchase . . . it would be a facility or a team/coach investment.

Good Luck!

**engr** · February 8th, 2006, 10:04 AM

Hey whatabetty, good advice from dryland. You might want to check out the Masters Swimming in your area and see if there is a team around. They should have some folks who can help you out.

United States Masters Swimming

And here is a link to identify local programs

USMS Local Programs

How goes the flipping anyway?

**velotab** · February 8th, 2006, 08:50 PM

As mudrock I has also been a competativ swimmer ( for about 10 years) and was a swimmingcoach on my spear time for two years.
A lot of good tips here. Mudrocks list for example. And as fitcore mentioned, get used to the flips by doing somersaults from a standing position. If you do this for a first time, find a deep enough place so you wount hit the bottom with your head.
Dryland show us a product that seems ok to use the first times, but im my opinion and experience (in learning this myself and later teach kids to do flip turns for the first time) there is no need for this.

dryland · February 9th, 2006, 04:31 PM

No need for a hammer either, with all the flat rocks lying aroung . . . right velotab? In fact, no need for the flip turn! Swimmers were turning around and going the other direction just fine before some lame brain invented that silly good fer nothin' flip turn maneuver.

**mudrock** · March 11th, 2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dryland

Check out www.fliptrain.com It's the first product ever designed to help teach swimmers how to perform the basic mechanics of the flip turn. You may have to convince whoever does the purchasing for your swimming facility to pursue this product, but it will be well worth it . . . trust me . . . I invented it!

Since I am a swimming coach, I reviewed your product, dryland. It appears to cover most of the basic flip-turn mechanics, especially my pet peeve - the flailing arms. Now if you could only invent something to force kids to exhale through their nose as they flip...

I would have a difficult time convincing my parent-run board to purchase one of your contraptions ($325), when my swimmers have been learning the old-fashioned way for so long...

I did have one question however - How does your invention account for the varied distances from the wall that swimmers need for their turns? For example, I take 1 stroke after the "T" before I flip, but I have some younger swimmers who take 3 or 4. Just a thought...

I'm diggin' your idea so far...

**whatabetty** · March 21st, 2006, 02:35 PM

Wow, so much great advice you guys. Thank you. I have to say the flip turn video helped me the most. I am now able to incorporate flip turns in my 2 mile swims. I think the hardest part was training my lungs. It has made made my swims much more enjoyable. Every now and then I'll miss the wall whenI'm flipping during pulling, but otherwise I think I have it down. Thanks so much everyone.

Badjojo · March 27th, 2006, 09:22 PM

dont breath and enhale water, thats bad and makes you vomit. Just relax and take it easy, best way to go.