Amount of weight on leg exercises

[GTFalcon]

Quick intro:
My wife and I have started working out again for about 3 months now. We are not beginner's in the gym, but we not been in the gym that much for the last 3 years.

My question revolves around the amount of weight on leg exercises, mainly Smith machine squats. On my wife's leg workout we are concentrating on adding muscle to the glutes (and to a lesser extent the quads). We know that doing deep squats for 6-12 reps and 3-5 sets should be a vital exercise in adding muscle. Right now she is able to do 125 lbs. for 5 sets by 6 reps (going down to just below parallel). I am trying to coorelate the amount of weight lifted to physique so we have an idea of where she is at in relation to other fitness models. This is mainly for motivation.

So my question for everybody on here (especially the fitness models who have spent a lot of time developing their glutes and quads) is how much weight are you able to do for a set of 6, set of 12, etc. on squats and Smith machine squats?

Feel free to list weights for leg extension, leg curl machines, etc. also.

We do not really have any women who workout seriously in our gym and it would just be nice to know where we stand. Especially since strength is proportional to your muscle size and shape (depending on your genetics too).

Thanks for any responses and help that you can give us.

[Hans_Rachid]

Hey there, I'm not a woman and even less a fitness model, but these links might be of some use to you :

Squat Standards
Predicting One-rep Max

The first link gives you the 1 rep max standards for squats (not smith machine squats though) depending on your sex and weight, but I don't know where these numbers come from and how reliable they are.
The second one allows you to calculate your 1 RM on a given exercice based on the number of reps you can perform in a set until you reach failure.

I don't know how much your wife weighs and how much she can lift, but let's pretend she weighs 132 lbs and can squat 125 for 6 reps (even though real squats are harder [and better] than smith machine squats). According to the 1RM calculator she could lift 145 lbs for one rep and that would put her inbetween the intermediate/advanced category.

[cuteitaliangurl]

Hi,

Well I am not fitness model or competitor, but have been into fitness all of my life. Since I used to play soccer at the college level my legs are pretty big, but once I stopped I learned how to "shrink" them in a way. I had HUGE legs.

Well to answer your question here is about what I can do:
Squats (6 reps) - 220 lbs
Squats (12-15 reps) - 160 lbs

Leg extensions and curls (6 reps) - 100 lbs
Leg extensions and curls (12-15 reps) - 70 lbs

Lunges (40 lbs dumbells) - 12-15 reps

Since my legs (quads and calves) where big due to soccer, I pretty much lifted lighter weight and higher reps for toning, and not power. Also I did lunges, side leg raises, glute raises at a higher rep rate. But I guess you wanted to add more, but I wanted to cut/ tone. I personally found that yoga exercises helps shape the hip area for me, but some do not like yoga.

I also worked out on my lower back a lot. Bent over rows, etc, and that would help with posture, but also could assist with more "junk in the trunk!".

[Italianangel]

I would do them from grass to 90 and not above, to hit the glutes with 75-80% max doing 3-4 sets of 8-12 to mass up the glutes and refine the ham glute tiie.
Linda

[Italianangel]

Originally Posted by GTFalcon

Quick intro:
My wife and I have started working out again for about 3 months now. We are not beginner's in the gym, but we not been in the gym that much for the last 3 years.

My question revolves around the amount of weight on leg exercises, mainly Smith machine squats. On my wife's leg workout we are concentrating on adding muscle to the glutes (and to a lesser extent the quads). We know that doing deep squats for 6-12 reps and 3-5 sets should be a vital exercise in adding muscle. Right now she is able to do 125 lbs. for 5 sets by 6 reps (going down to just below parallel). I am trying to coorelate the amount of weight lifted to physique so we have an idea of where she is at in relation to other fitness models. This is mainly for motivation.

So my question for everybody on here (especially the fitness models who have spent a lot of time developing their glutes and quads) is how much weight are you able to do for a set of 6, set of 12, etc. on squats and Smith machine squats?

Feel free to list weights for leg extension, leg curl machines, etc. also.

We do not really have any women who workout seriously in our gym and it would just be nice to know where we stand. Especially since strength is proportional to your muscle size and shape (depending on your genetics too).

Thanks for any responses and help that you can give us.

The weight, max I can do does not relate to any size, but for size I work at 75-80% max. So I would work with a 25lb per side more or less on the smith bar lifting below and to 90 degrees only. its the under 90 work which hardens the butt.
I also suggest stiff leg deads for her.
Linda

[JoeBAR]

Originally Posted by Hans_Rachid

Squat Standards

I ain't been there for a long time ... Maybe a year, and now I'm advanced on squat and bench. Funnily enough, I conder my dead to be my strongest lift (well, it's the most weight I shift) but I'm almost 30 lbs short

[helpmespock]

what other people do is totally irrelevant. everyone is unique in their anatomy muscle density, and biomechanics of their body. Your wife should probably do a little higher reps, like 12-20 to develop her lower body well. squats are an exersise you can make great progress on with higher reps. You don't need to adhere to the "lower reps more mass building" theory on squats, in fact the lower reps are more likely to result in an injury, which will result in missed leg days in the gym which in the long run will translate into less muscle building.

You also don't need to go below parallel to build the glutes. The glutes are more affected by your stance width, go wider then shoulder width stance to parallel for 20 tough reps, for 5 sets. The first set should be a small challenge....the second, tough but doable, the third should be extremely difficult, and cause her to question whether she could do two more....the fourth set should take all of her courage to complete, the fifth set should have her on another plane of existance, the weight being moved by sheer strength of will...if they feel that way, she is doing the right amount of weight...it may take a couple of workouts for her to find this weight, but when she does, ask her how her ass feels the next four days...and when she calls you into the bathroom to lift her off the can, you will know she is on her way to bowling ball glutes....have fun!

[tooncesthecat]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

what other people do is totally irrelevant. everyone is unique in their anatomy muscle density, and biomechanics of their body. Your wife should probably do a little higher reps, like 12-20 to develop her lower body well. squats are an exersise you can make great progress on with higher reps. You don't need to adhere to the "lower reps more mass building" theory on squats, in fact the lower reps are more likely to result in an injury, which will result in missed leg days in the gym which in the long run will translate into less muscle building.

You also don't need to go below parallel to build the glutes. The glutes are more affected by your stance width, go wider then shoulder width stance to parallel for 20 tough reps, for 5 sets. The first set should be a small challenge....the second, tough but doable, the third should be extremely difficult, and cause her to question whether she could do two more....the fourth set should take all of her courage to complete, the fifth set should have her on another plane of existance, the weight being moved by sher strength of will...if they feel that way, she is doing the right amount of weight...it may take a couple of workouts for her to find this weight, but when she does, ask her how her ass feels the next four days...and when she calls you into the bathroom to lift her off the can, you will know she is on her way to bowling ball glutes....have fun!

Although I tend to agree with your advice, I believe that a squat a bit below parallel will stress the glutes more. I agree a wide stance is best, but putting the femur in a slightly lower position will allow the glutes to make that initial hip extension before the quads kick in to extend the knee in a much stronger position (once the angle of knee flexion is >90 degrees.

Good to see your name popping up in some of these posts! We can use your knowledge and expertise here

[helpmespock]

Your right Cat....I probably didn't state it as clearly as I could, you will definately activate the glutes more by going below parallel, I just don't think it is necessary....and you risk your knees a bit more, thats why I tend to stick to parallel...some people have advantageous anatomy, and squat to the floor heavy with no problem...thats fine, if your one of those lucky ones, but I think the larger percentage of lifters will eventually injure their knees with it...just IMO good to hear from everyone!

cheers!

Sean

ps check out my wife's butt in the members pics, I never take her below parallel, and she has bowling balls to show for it!

[JoeBAR]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

Your right Cat....I probably didn't state it as clearly as I could, you will definately activate the glutes more by going below parallel, I just don't think it is necessary....and you risk your knees a bit more, thats why I tend to stick to parallel...

If you dont go below parallel, it ain't a squat

Going below parallel does not affect your knees any more than stopping half way, rather the opposite. The matter has been discussed at length both here and on t-nations.

[Italianangel]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

Your right Cat....I probably didn't state it as clearly as I could, you will definately activate the glutes more by going below parallel, I just don't think it is necessary....and you risk your knees a bit more, thats why I tend to stick to parallel...some people have advantageous anatomy, and squat to the floor heavy with no problem...thats fine, if your one of those lucky ones, but I think the larger percentage of lifters will eventually injure their knees with it...just IMO good to hear from everyone!

cheers!

Sean

ps check out my wife's butt in the members pics, I never take her below parallel, and she has bowling balls to show for it!

If you go past 90 but keep knees from going beyond toes, no issues with knee. I have had acl reconstruct in one of my knees and no probs on this exercise.
I also noticed after 10 years of squats, below 90 or atg is what gave me something all women want, glute ham tie separation.
Just check out my pics thread and you can see for yourself what atg did for my butt.....................my butt brought home a trophy for itself just in Nov.
I never did atg until a few years ago and am I glad I did.

Linda

[tooncesthecat]

Originally Posted by Italianangel

.....................my butt brought home a trophy for itself just in Nov.

Now that's something you don't hear everyday However, I have conducted extensive research into this and found that you are correct!

Seriously, tonight is leg night and I am going to lighten the weights up and try to go as much ATG as I can. Thanks for the inspiration

[helpmespock]

If you go past 90 but keep knees from going beyond toes, no issues with knee.

Firstly, Congrats on your win, and your pics speak for themselves! As far as the quoted statement, I do disagree. I think it is an individual thing...there are those that can squat atg heavy for years with no problem if their form is on...I don't argue that. Still there are those who regardles of their form can not do this. It is generally considered unsafe. I think we should all be careful making blanket statements here, as many will read the postings here as fact.


Dr nick Evans,(MuscleMag) an Orthopaedic surgeon and Sports Medicine Doc as well as amature bodybuilder, agrees with my stance here, as it is quoted in his book, "Men's Body Sculpting". As a medical doc myself I can assure you Orthopaedic surgeons know the knee damn well. In Med School, I shied away from Ortho, because I didn't have the patience to memorize their text...for Example, Rockwood and Green's Orthopaedic text is essentially the "Bible" for ortho residents...there are over 200 large and microtyped pages in it dedicated to the knee. To succeed as an ortho resident this must be commited to memory...Dr Nick did that 20 years ago! When many posting here were barely alive! Since then he has learned that anatomy physiology and pathophysiology(of the knee) to a far deeper extent. He says without hesitation, not to go below parallel. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but some opinions should be weighed a bit heavier then others...I'll stick with Dr Nick on this one.

[JoeBAR]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

Firstly, Congrats on your win, and your pics speak for themselves! As far as the quoted statement, I do disagree. I think it is an individual thing...there are those that can squat atg heavy for years with no problem if their form is on...I don't argue that. Still there are those who regardles of their form can not do this. It is generally considered unsafe. I think we should all be careful making blanket statements here, as many will read the postings here as fact.


Dr nick Evans,(MuscleMag) an Orthopaedic surgeon and Sports Medicine Doc as well as amature bodybuilder, agrees with my stance here, as it is quoted in his book, "Men's Body Sculpting". As a medical doc myself I can assure you Orthopaedic surgeons know the knee damn well. In Med School, I shied away from Ortho, because I didn't have the patience to memorize their text...for Example, Rockwood and Green's Orthopaedic text is essentially the "Bible" for ortho residents...there are over 200 large and microtyped pages in it dedicated to the knee. To succeed as an ortho resident this must be commited to memory...Dr Nick did that 20 years ago! When many posting here were barely alive! Since then he has learned that anatomy physiology and pathophysiology(of the knee) to a far deeper extent. He says without hesitation, not to go below parallel. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but some opinions should be weighed a bit heavier then others...I'll stick with Dr Nick on this one.

Call it what you want, but if you don't go below parallel, it's not a squat, period.

[helpmespock]

Call it what you want, but if you don't go below parallel, it's not a squat, period.

By official Powerlifting standards that is true, but I am speaking from a bodybuilding perspective, and particularily from a medical standpoint. Bodybuilding doesn't adhere to such definitions.

Hey I'm just giving my two cents. squats to parallel are still a fantastic compound movement that will give excellent results in lower body development. I believe going below parallel is an unnecessary risk to your knees, and if your not competing in powerlifting I don't see it as nec. I am fairly sure most Orthopaedic surgeons( The docs that will repair your knee when you screw it up) would agree. I have been weight training for over 20 years, I am not surprised at all that many will disagree with me. Thats why everyone gets to expres their opinion equally.

cheers,
Sean

[Italianangel]

Originally Posted by helpmespock

Firstly, Congrats on your win, and your pics speak for themselves! As far as the quoted statement, I do disagree. I think it is an individual thing...there are those that can squat atg heavy for years with no problem if their form is on...I don't argue that. Still there are those who regardles of their form can not do this. It is generally considered unsafe. I think we should all be careful making blanket statements here, as many will read the postings here as fact.


Dr nick Evans,(MuscleMag) an Orthopaedic surgeon and Sports Medicine Doc as well as amature bodybuilder, agrees with my stance here, as it is quoted in his book, "Men's Body Sculpting". As a medical doc myself I can assure you Orthopaedic surgeons know the knee damn well. In Med School, I shied away from Ortho, because I didn't have the patience to memorize their text...for Example, Rockwood and Green's Orthopaedic text is essentially the "Bible" for ortho residents...there are over 200 large and microtyped pages in it dedicated to the knee. To succeed as an ortho resident this must be commited to memory...Dr Nick did that 20 years ago! When many posting here were barely alive! Since then he has learned that anatomy physiology and pathophysiology(of the knee) to a far deeper extent. He says without hesitation, not to go below parallel. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but some opinions should be weighed a bit heavier then others...I'll stick with Dr Nick on this one.

true that not everyone can afford this position nor should do it, it stretches teh knee capsule to bend too far but that does not take away from the fact that for those who can, work within as full a range of motion as you can. I had my acl done and worked with some of the top pts in the country, those who work with nfl and world soccer elites, rick celebrini and alex mackekni - spelling??? I was also working with Bob Mcormack who also works on elite National and world class athletes and when it comes to athletes some of the limitations placed on most or placed for safety do not always apply to athletes.
They did not just fix me they became my team for awhile as consultants and I worked with many elite athletes, still do, like I said the rules can vary between individuals, nothing is hard and fast so you can be safe saying do not go beyond 90 but that is a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone and sometimes being over safe means you lose some crucial training and results. I agree to always work within safe ranges with clients, but each clients has a differing safe range.
Also not all Drs. know it all, but not to say this dr you are refering to is not great but just as you said I had to watch blanket statements, well yours was also a blanket statement so I would also watch that type of blanket statement.
Great that it works for you but not everyone, and same goes for going beyond 90, works for some but not good for all but we cannot say its wrong or right, just relative to the person.
Linda

[helpmespock]

Also not all Drs. know it all, but not to say this dr you are refering to is not great but just as you said I had to watch blanket statements, well yours was also a blanket statement so I would also watch that type of blanket statement.
Great that it works for you but not everyone, and same goes for going beyond 90, works for some but not good for all but we cannot say its wrong or right, just relative to the person.
Linda

Hey I Angel, I agree totally...I think if you read my posts again you will see I conceeded that some will have no problems with the atg tech...I certainly know my share of them(and I am quite jealous of them as well!). BTW long before I posted here, I have always been a fan of your physique....so props to ya!